Building a Room Full of Balanced Harmonics

Hi Zonees

Sonic made yet another move of things in my room. The two racks have been pulled even further forward towards the listening chair -- about 5 inches. Promising improvement in middle soundstage imaging.

Next I moved the central FS-PZC by about 3 inches forward, but leaving the FS-DRTs to the sides of the FS-PZC where they are. Better focus.

Small improvements but improvements nonetheless.

Sonic is thinking about how I can re-integrate 78 rpm playback into my room instead of playing SPs in another part of my dwelling.

But that would mean another rack to support the Audio Technica turntable and a phono stage. Now having that extra gear near the main racks may collapse the stage and lose a lot of the gains Sonic been making steadily. Placement of the turntable is going to be important since with SPs I'll running back and forth to change records every 3 minutes to 7 minutes for 78s, broad groove records and EPs. That's exercise   

Place the extra rack for the Audio Technica near the existing racks and then move the IKEA Poang chair every time I play this sort of programme? This is an option given that when Sonic is standing within the area bounded by the MG1.5QRs, I can hear sound coming from the walls not the speaker panels   

Yes, Sonic is getting imaging on the walls whichever way I turn. I heard this described on the old Tuneland and didn't know what it meant or believed it could be till Sonic now discovered that my system could do this!

So playing a mono recording and sitting within the speaker zone has given me a very large, frequency correct image whichever wall I face (including the BookCase Wall)!

Of course, I could site the AT LP120 near my present chair, sit there and change records within arms reach but then lots of cable running about.

Need to think of a solution...given that my collection of these records is growing rather quickly. Just got a pile of 45 rpms. I could play them on the Rega but the cartridge in the RB700 is aligned and optimised for LPs. With the AT LP120 and its detachable headshell arm, I could optimise the geometry for one cartridge to play EPs in one headshell and optimize the geometry for another cartridge mounted in another headshell to play SPs.

Dunno if Michael got a suggestion for me?

Sonic

Sonic said

So the questions Sonic raised on Hiend001's thread becomes more real -- because this is a real effect, it is not some audiophile nonsense to be ignored, some reasoning why it is so needs to be developed.

Sonic maintains there is no weird science in the Tune, just a practical reapplication of established laws of acoustics approached with a fresh mind (Michael's primarily), not the approach taken by audiophiles and an audio industry that is losing its future because it is not delivering to new generations.

mg

Some wonder why I keep one step away from the audiophile core. This is because for me, I have to keep in the "real". I see the audio world as being something that is pure and when these guys come in and start to make their technical myths, formulas and theories a lot of times I see and hear something other than truth at play. I may have turned my life up-side-down to find the truth but that is where I feel at home. Experience to me and the way we approach experience is how we gain knowledge and this leads to wisdom, and insight. I believe nature is always waiting to talk to us if we are wanting to listen. And listening has to be backed up with something that is practical. I don't think you can get much more practical than tuning. It's one of the oldest and most stable of technologies.

sonic said

It also seems like Hiend001's discovery of aligning the grain of the Low Tone Redwood blocks is showing benefits in Sonic's system. I sort of knew it would -- if Hiend001 hears something, Sonic takes notice. And if Michael weighs in saying that it his own experience too, then it is really something.

mg

I've been learning a lot about the blocks and the direction is a big part of it obviously because of the grain of the units. More and more I'm finding how highly variable these are. There's some great transfer going on here and at times when I use the right particular block in the right position the music explodes into it's own. This is a studying that is growing every listen and I'm happy that I have found this material and, I feel, fairly nice voicing technique.

sonic

Yes, Sonic is getting imaging on the walls whichever way I turn. I heard this described on the old Tuneland and didn't know what it meant or believed it could be till Sonic now discovered that my system could do this!

mg

  

Hi Zonees

Had an idea – with the racks moved forward a little, Sonic moved the FS-PZCs back to how Michael advised I placed them (see pix on this thread of Aug 15, 2014).  Last time, they gave a beautifully wide stage but with the DecoTunes on the doors, there was a slight ringing so I traced it to the corners (mostly rear) and went back to the FS-PZCs across the corners to control it (I dislike ringing, once I know its there, Sonic hears it all the time even if it is minor).

But while our rooms are puzzles, organic in some ways, they do not know which dimension is which, so Sonic did a temporary fix because the rear corners could be treated and fix the ring.  But not having more DTs, DRTs or pillows, I took a few light cushions and placed them in the vertical seam of the rear corners under the TuneStrip. Two per corner above the guitar cases. Not bad. They push the sound a bit to the forward end of the room but with the FS-PZCs and DTs I am still getting a huge sound. So till Sonic gets a proper solution from Michael’s products, I can stay with this.

What’s Sonic been listening to?

Steve Howe



Great guitar work from the Yes-man.  Odd in spots with an attempt at baroque thrown in for good measure. Sings too.

Crosby Stills and Nash



A justly underrated album, but four nice tunes that Sonic likes – can Zonees guess which?

Now more like what Zonees expect that Sonic listens to:

Jacques Loussier playing J S Bach



The Alberni String Quartet playing Haydn



Sonic

Sonic thinks the Tune Instinct is telling me the TuneStrips in the front corners are too high if I move the FS-PZCs away from the corners. They should therefore be centered vertically if there are FS-PZC/FS-DRTs controlling the bottom four feet of the corner. Anyway they were placed this high because FS-DRTs and later FS-PZCs were there doing just that.

Must try this. If it works I got ideas for improvements in the rear corners.

Hi Michael and Hiend001

Sonic has got all the Low Tone Redwood blocks' grain running in the same direction (lengthwise of my room) and it is a good sound. Musically whole, harmonically harmonious. It works! Bravo Hiend001!

As Sonic ponders how to place the turntable for my 78s and EPs, Michael what are your thoughts to making a rack disappear? I tried the MG genuine hemlock shelf with mild steel rods around the room. Wherever it was the rack collapsed the soundstage in its vicinity, near the main racks or next to my listening chair. The object was audible in its effect everywhere for the worse.

Is this because the hemlock shelf has too much mass? What if I tried a light IKEA Lack table with 4 Space Cones point upwards under the legs to support the turntable?

Michael, can you suggest some solutions.

Sonic

Hi Michael and Zonees

Here’s one of the Bee Gees LPs that Sonic referred to.  This is possibly my favourite of all their recordings through the Gibbs’ 30+ year career.



It rocks fairly hard in places and after I discovered this gem it became one of Sonic’s desert island discs. This one is a German pressing.

Now on to Tuning.

This is what I did this week – the TuneStrips in the front corners are now vertically centred.





Pretty good. This move increased girth and width.

On the other hand, a trial using Tuning Squares at the junction of floor and walls didn’t work.  They caused an increase in bass but this was doubling, muddying up the sound.  





Sonic

Hi Sonic

Hi Michael and Hiend001

Sonic has got all the Low Tone Redwood blocks' grain running in the same direction (lengthwise of my room) and it is a good sound. Musically whole, harmonically harmonious. It works! Bravo Hiend001!

As Sonic ponders how to place the turntable for my 78s and EPs, Michael what are your thoughts to making a rack disappear? I tried the MG genuine hemlock shelf with mild steel rods around the room. Wherever it was the rack collapsed the soundstage in its vicinity, near the main racks or next to my listening chair. The object was audible in its effect everywhere for the worse.

Is this because the hemlock shelf has too much mass? What if I tried a light IKEA Lack table with 4 Space Cones point upwards under the legs to support the turntable?

Michael, can you suggest some solutions.

mg

The hemlock shelves were made at a time when components were much heavier, so yes I would try the Ikea stuff.

It's good to see Sonic moving toward lighter wood. I think your going to like this change a lot.

Nice Bee Gee's I'm jealous

On the lower corners, in my experience I have found that if the lower corners are shut down too fast the life of the music goes with it. I believe this is because of all the other materials in the room tend to be on the floor and burn a certain amount of energy on their own. It's a good experiment though to see how close you can get to the corner before the shutdown starts to happen.

Also going back to you post on Hiend001's thread about direction. The grain clearly reacts differently with the direction of it. I'm not saying one way vs the other as much as the effect being different. I tend to work with the direction that works the best for "that" recording. I use the blocks like variable tuners and the more I get use to one particular block I use it for certain changes.

Hi Michael (and Zonees)

Thanks for your comments, Michael!

As Sonic’s reaches this stage and after lots of listening, it looks like the goal of this thread “Building a Room Full of Balanced Harmonics” has been met. With the Tunes that Michael and good Tunees have advised Sonic, the sound today is a long way from when this effort to change the harmonic structure of my room started in August 2012.

It is time to start a new chapter since the way forward is with more wood from Michael and some new discoveries that Sonic is making – plus recounting my exploration into the musick of different ages through my growing collection of analog recordings.

So I have decided to close this thread and start a new one – “Tuning My Musical Journey”.

Talk to you all there.

Sonic