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 Tuning My Musical Journey

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Sonic.beaver




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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2015 9:16 am


Only in Japan Shocked

The Analog Audio Fair 2015 in Akihabara.

Imagine an entire audio exhibition devoted to analog gear and related equipment Rolling Eyes

See this: http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/06/analog-audio-fair-2015-akihabara-japan.html#more

Yet while Sonic is enjoying the sound of LPs -- and yes, the hand-wound Harmonic Springs from Michael are doing something good to the sound -- I must not get so enamoured with analog to the point that Sonic becomes a "Flat Earth" type and I ignore the best of new technologies like multiple DSD.

Because so many analog vs digital comparisons are done with the legacy disc and a CD re-issue. Once in a while against the consumer reel tape issue. What if the transfer was done badly by technicians who were incompetent or didn't listen to what they doing? I mean in my collection I have examples of ridiculous mistakes at a most basic level -- channels swapped around compared to the LPs.

In audio Sonic has realized that it is easier to do a bad sounding job than a good. Then again we don't know if the CD mastering people used the same or even the right master tape. Imagine this -- if the original master was missing but a multi-generation tape is found but it is severely shedding oxide and the treble is gone so the tech boosts the treble and applies some de-noise....that CD will never stand comparison to the analog LP or consumer reel tape would it?

So it is possible that digital is getting the blame for more than its share of flaws.

Right now Sonic is playing an LP of Neil Young's Everybody Knows this is Nowhere (with Crazy Horse). This is so much better than the CD version of the songs which I have in digital form on Young's Decade which is thinner sounding and less punchy. Yet, the Decade double CD could have been mastered from different source tapes.

Sonic
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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 16, 2015 3:35 am

Hi Sonic

I feel the music is find, it's the equipment that's screwed up and somewhat the listening style.

I guess I'm so use to digging into each recording as if it's a different music system, that I no longer see the bad in recordings, with the exception of a few remastering boo boo's and engineer idiots (and production). In the case of "Decade", the comparison should be between " Everybody Knows this is Nowhere " on Vinyl vs "Everybody Knows this is Nowhere " on CD and see how they tune up. Turntable is of course a one pass design and CD's ,almost always, a settling period before the music starts to breathe. Their really two different languages. One thing for sure, I wouldn't tune a system the same way for vinyl as I do for CD. Two different animals, and this is why I don't multi-source my systems. Personally I've stopped doing muti-source systems and comparisons quite a while ago. I understand the convience and all but the whole "pre" design is something that is a lot less pure than people think.

let's take "Everybody Knows this is Nowhere" vinyl vs CD

In the comparison your going to run one pass on the vinyl. You can do several passes but your not going to notice a ton of difference. Now on the CD version, run that one pass. Usually not so good, but put that recording on repeat, come back the next day, and start tuning the system to the recording and many (most) times if you have done a good job you should be in WOW-Land.

note: also never ever ever have anything else plugged in when playing CDP's. Doesn't matter on or off, CDP's don't like it.

ok, back to this vs that

If this hobby was based on cold starts, I'd be almost exclusively R2R. With tape, you can warm up the heads with 10 or 15 minute play, and come back and run the tape. Vinyl has an EQed warmth but good at cold starts. CD's, here's where we find ourselves with a completely different type of source altogether. Notice this with the three. Vinyl and tape you can hear how different the production is, do your EQ (adjustments) and go to town. CD's you are hit in the face with the differences in the recordings (assuming you at least have an ok system setup) big time. But take that CD let it settle and learn how to tune in that specific recording and you have got yourself magic on wheels. Problem is not the CD, it's the system tuning. Of course there are exceptions with all 3 but I'm talking in general. Equipment response differently to Tape and Vinyl than it does recorded material on CD. Dynamics on CDP's don't usually gel till after some settling.

Speaking for myself, method and system, a week (or even a day) after almost any CD I own and it's not the same piece of music as compared to the first 1-3 passes and most of the time my CD's have ended up walking all over the same recordings on Vinyl. Neck to neck, I would probably take vinyl 75% of the time from cold start, but long term settling I would take CD maybe 95%.

Keep in mind in all cases the equipment would be turned on all the time.
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Sonic.beaver




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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 16, 2015 9:03 am


That's an enlightening post, Michael Exclamation

Cold start behavior is an important thing to Sonic given that is how I have to run my system. Restrictions of my dwelling aside Sonic is not comfortable with the system fully powered up and running on repeat in a dwelling where there is no one present.

Michael could you elaborate: note: also never ever ever have anything else plugged in when playing CDP's. Doesn't matter on or off, CDP's don't like it.

What this apply to and how far?

In Sonic's system I have two power strips coming from different power outlets. One has the CDP, preamp, main amp and sometimes tape deck plugged in. The other power strip runs the main turntable, phono stage, second turntable, second phono stage and graphic EQ.

Other outlets in the room power the room lighting and the laptop when not running on battery mode.

So what will you do with this set up to conform to your advice if Sonic is using the CDP as source to play musick?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2015 3:15 am

Hi Sonic

"So what will you do with this set up to conform to your advice if Sonic is using the CDP as source to play musick?"

This is a troubling question for MG and I have thought about it for a long time and keep coming back to the same thing.

There is something about the makeup of the parts used in DAC that are super sensitive to current flow.

First, let me say that I have done the before and after testing on this particular topic as long as digital has been around. I first notice this while helping on a recording in Atlanta. I was so bent on this that I went back to my store and went through every setup and found that the D to A conversion as well as the A to D is affected by connected parts of anything in the electric chain. Don't do this, unless you plan on eating everything in your frig affraid  and having no air conditioning, but if you have everything unpluged (on or off) and play your CDP, within 20 minutes you will be in tears over how good the sound is. In your case though you would also have to undo the maggies.

You might think "lets go batteries" nope, then you hear the sound of the batteries and their drain.

I've tried a few ways around this and came to the conclusion that one source systems have the edge over multiple ones.

Let me go a little deeper if I could then look at your case.

After using CD's for so long and so critically, I'm sure there is something here in what digital has done that no other source has so far. Set aside poor compression and bad engineering. I'm talking about recordings and CD's done with care. There's a wider range to CD's in the harmonics comparing apples to apples than the other forms. Being a R2R tape guy it took me a while to shallow this, but I'm about proof in the puding so I had to admit that when the CDP is charged up accurately it produces an unmatched sound, so far Wink . Don't get rid of your CD's Exclamation I don't know if we will find a way to get around the problem of multi-source systems but if and when those CD's will be priceless.

Line conditioners are not the fix here, the opposite. Selectors in the peramp is not the fix.

There are obvious two areas where this is the most problematic. At the electric outlets and circuit box, and at the preamp. Those are the two places where everything runs into one and cause the conversion to get out of whack.

let's think about this a minute a see what options we have

Worst case is choosing one over the other and living with the fact that CD's may not get up to full potential within your listening session.

QuestionIdeascratchstudy
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Sonic.beaver




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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2015 8:49 am


Hi Zonees

It is mid-week and a sufficient time with the hand-wound Harmonic Springs in antenna mode to make a determination. Again, Sonic gets a slight emphasis in the midrange at the expense of warmth. Less than Space Cones but an emphasis nonetheless.

Sigh.... Neutral so back to the no-antenna round the toroidal transformers. Michael, what do you see in this?

Looks like this theme of experimentation is looking like a dead end.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2015 9:21 am

Hi Sonic,

I love to see your tuned pictures, amazing masterpiece you have there Very Happy .

I have got a question for you if you don't mind Smile . Looking at your transformers it is placed under those LTR blocks my question is:

1) Is there any changes in sound you hear if you rotate the LTR around (changing the direction of those LTR  
     block fibers) say from 90* to 180* or 270* clock or counter clockwise ?

2) Also if you flip it over to the other side does the sound change ?

3) If you place the transformer slightly towards the edge of the LTR blocks does it affect the sound too ?


Regards

TJ
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Sonic.beaver




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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 17, 2015 10:28 am

Hello tjbhuler

Your questions are always welcome! Thanks for referring to my system pix as "masterpieces". Here are some answers to your questions:

1) Is there any changes in sound you hear if you rotate the LTR around (changing the direction of those LTR
block fibers) say from 90* to 180* or 270* clock or counter clockwise ?

A: Sonic learnt from Michael and after reading Hiend001-sifu that the Low Tone Redwood block grain should run in a uniform direction in a room-system. Till Hiend001-sifu’s post I did even think about that my Low Tone Redwood blocks’ grain were all over the place. So I lined them all up and left it that way, never tried other orientations. Sonic has the grain running down the length of the room and up-down. Did the uniform orientation make a difference to the sound. I think it did but the change was so small that I could have imagined it. It has been months of settling and Sonic doesn’t know what I might hear if I mixed the grain up. No point trying to find out.

2) Also if you flip it over to the other side does the sound change ?

A: Don’t know, never tried it. The surface Sonic uses is the one that lets the Low Tone Redwood block sit most stably on the parquet floor. Turn one of them over and there is a slight rock.

3) If you place the transformer slightly towards the edge of the LTR blocks does it affect the sound too ?

A: The transformers each sit on three machine wound matt Harmonic Springs that stand on the Low Tone Redwood blocks. They are placed and balanced to be most stable on the springs which are set near the edge of the Low Tone Redwood blocks so there is no room for movement before the toroids fall over.

I have tried setting the two transformers on the edges of three Low Tone Redwood blocks – the middle one supporting two transformers. Set right at the edges of the Low Tone Redwood blocks. The sound was dulled, the use of Harmonic Springs had more life.

Sonic
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tjbhuler




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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 18, 2015 7:38 am

Hi Sonic,

Thanks for the answers, I have just received my orders bounce . Eager to start my journey now, will definitely be looking at your pictures and Heind001's too for inspiration and ideas Very Happy .

Regards

TJ
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 18, 2015 9:41 am


Hey tjbhuler

What's in the box you received from Michael? Show a pix of all the goodies you received if you will.

Sonic is envious....I am still waiting for my parcel of cables from Michael. Not that there is any delay. Counting the normal number of days that shipping from MGA takes to Singapore, my parcel should reach me Monday June 22.

Sonic



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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeThu Jun 18, 2015 9:53 am

Hi tjbhuler

What Sonic did with the transformers some time ago.

Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 S365

This made the sound thick and slow.  Low Tone Redwood blocks are powerful. If you got them, use them in moderation but for sure transformers can and should be tuned.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2015 9:35 am

Hi Zonees

As Sonic waits for the shipment of T3 and T2 wires plus the power box to arrive, I did almost tuning this week after removing the Harmonic Springs as antennae.

But there is always something to learn. Like the position of the Amplifier toroidal transformers from each other appears to have some bearing on the sound. As an experiment Sonic placed them as far apart as possible given the wires and found the sound became somewhat diffuse and insubstantial. The best was surprisingly when they were relatively close to each other where the focus and Tone was good. The best distance for the toroidals was about 1/3 wider than the width of the amplifier casing. Maybe Sonic’s imagination, when the toroidals were brought closer than this the sound was shrunken.

Michael – what do you think?

The other thing I did was something Sonic’s Tune instinct had mentioned quietly to me without great insistence – the legs of the wooden table that acts as my equipment stand rests directly on the floor. It is possible that coupling the table to the floor (and therefore the equipment through the table to the floor) might get improved Tone. For this I might use 2.5 inch x 2.5 inch x 0.25 inch MW squares under the table legs. From what Sonic understands MW has a degree of “evacuation effect” to it which might be helpful in this application. Besides wood that sounds good is always welcome in my room where warmth and harmonic tone is what Sonic works for.

This was done. I got a little more detail in the midrange and somewhat more girth that for instance told Sonic when listening to a Leo Kottke CD that the 12-string guitar he was playing is a big bodied instrument. The transients of the notes are also a bit "snappier". Let's see how the effect increases or change with settling.

Enough of this. Must hear lots of musick this weekend. And wait for the T3 cables to be delivered.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2015 9:43 am

Hi Sonic,

Thanks for the picture, I see that your PZC-fs is resting on LTR blocks and I think I can see MW's too. Could you shed some light on what difference did you experience in comparison to MG's spikes also with and without those MW's in your audio setup and dwellings?

Guess it has to be good since you are going with this combination Wink .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2015 11:15 am


Hi tjbhuler

Good you asked and a good observation on your part.

Now these are historical pictures and given that Sonic's system is a journey what you see is a step on a journey.

Of course what you see, when applying it the opposite may happen in your system of course.

Sonic has subsequent to the point in time that picture was taken has found that with the FS-PZC/AAB1x1 cones (they are there, you cannot see them from the angle of the pictures) -- resting on MW then Low Tone Redwood blocks then Brazilian Pine boards -- the sound was incorrect.

My FS-PZCs were supplied with MTDs. What are yours supplied with?

Have always used MTDs or AAB1x1 with my FS-PZCs, not without. Not tried them with spikes.

In the end, the most stable set up for sound is FS-PZC > AAB1x1 > MW square > Brazilian Pine board.

Good as they are, the Low Tone Redwood blocks worked poorly in this application.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2015 2:14 pm

Hi Sonic

I go extremely slow with transformers because remember moving the transformer resets the whole system.

When I'm working with transformers I don't do any other tweaks or it can result in backing up and starting all over.

It almost sounds to me that you have been moving a little too fast again, and this always ends in partial tunes and not the whole. Anyway it's kinda what I'm seeing.

I a lot of times don't move forward until I hear the sound of settling. Read Hiend001.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 19, 2015 3:24 pm

Hi Sonic

Q when you did your block transformer setup did you try different arrangements?

Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 M1076
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 20, 2015 9:31 am


Hi Michael and Zonees

Sonic has tried three Low Tone Redwood blocks under each toroidal transformer of the amp - much like the first diagram from the top. But this was accompanied back them with a fourth Low Tone Redwood block on top of the transformer.

I'll try this again but must not do too much at one time -- especially with the package of the T3 and T2 cables arriving in the early part of next week (I hope).

What Sonic did today was to use the correct drive and crack the screws at the corners of my FS-PZCs slightly. About half of them had a "crack/snap", the other half turned with some wrist effort on the T-bar wrench but with no "crack/snap".

Playing musick hinted that there might be more warmth and presence, but not in the elevated midrange sense. For settling I played a CD of Bach's Orchestral Suites -- C Hogwood, Academy of Ancient Music/l'Oiseau Lyre.

Sonic let the CD run on over and over. Then some hours later Sonic listened. It sounded alright and as I did some reading Sonic started to follow the counterpoint of the bass line Surprised I was playing out the notes of a bass line that I was much less aware of on this recording before now Exclamation the bass and cello line has become more clear and weighty.

Enough of testing....the purpose of this hobby is to hear good musick!

CD player shut down.

Now spinning on the Rega is a mono pressing of The Modern Jazz Quartet's "Patterns". This is one of their few recordings on United Artists (most of their recorded work is on Atlantic).

Next record will be Suite in F major and Symphony a' 8 Concertanti by Jan Dismas Zelenka (1679 -- 1745), a lesser-known composer from the time of Sebastian Bach and Handel..... after that, the next recording will be....wherever the musick leads Sonic to Very Happy

Sonic


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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 20, 2015 11:34 am

Oh yeah, don't mess with that than. We got some cable coming up, that means lots of burnin.

We will need to relax the cable when it settles in so try to let things run as much as you can. I set the cables tight so they will need voiced later.

When you unpack take the cable and straighten it out and you might want to go down the cable and move it side to side with your fingers a little. I spent a fair bit of time breaking the seal but it will have re-settle a little from the trip. When you tell me the sound I'll know what to do for you hopefully cause I made some for me out of your same batch and haven't done anything with it till you get yours.

Take some good pics for me too. I need some for the product page. My place is a mess right now, as usual.

Oh also, yeah some might like it but LTR on top and bottom of a transformer could easily be an over dose.

I have close to those same transformers on the way to me now so sometime this summer I'll get to them and some tube stuff too.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2015 12:52 am


Hi Michael

I got a puzzlement with my FS-PZCs. This is not due to cracking the corner screws.

As you advised tjbhuler -- Sonic tapped the wood board of the FS-PZCs with my knuckles and finger tips to hear how the sound changed from the corners through the centre around the Tunable Bolt to the other corner. I did also the tap-test down the centre line of the FS_PZC from top to bottom.

At the edges the sound is tight and when we get to the centre around the Tunable Bolts the sound goes deeper and starts to sound sort of diaphragmatic.

So far so good.

Then Sonic compared the "deep notes" against each other and of the three FS-PZCs the notes/pitches are audibly different Exclamation One is deeper than the other two. The other two are about the same in pitch.

What do you think, Michael?

Of course I would like all three to have the same and deepest tap-tones.

Mr Green -- can this be done Question

Sonic

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 22, 2015 9:10 am

Greetings Michael and Zonees cheers

Hey Michael -- your answer to my question on how to get the same "tap tones" for all my FS-PZCs.

Zonees -- the package arrived exactly to the day Harold told me it would Very Happy  

Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 S366

Well packed -- the power strip  was packed base up, Sonic turned it over so Zonees might see what it is.

As Sonic has found out, there is always a surprise with things I receive from Michael.

First thing I noticed is the base cables that Michael tunes and sells as T3, T2, T1 are different from before.  The diameter of the individual cables including the insulation are thinner than the earlier ones. Is the AWG of the conductor of the conductor strands in the T3 still 22 AWG?

The earlier ones were stiffer and had the serial number printed on them which helped mark directionality -- there is no "writing" on the new generation cables.

The second thing Sonic found when removing the insulation with a mechanical wire stripper was the conductors were shiny copper!  Michael, I thought we in the Tune prefer alloy or coated nickel over copper conductors?

So on to installation.

Now if you don't have a mechanical wire stripper it is going to be hard to remove the insulation from these strands without cutting through them or nicking the metal. Sonic did put some small nicks in a conductor or two. Sonic gently twisted the three conductors of the T3 together and wired up. I did pull the cables left and right before installation as Michael suggested.

Next step -- no power up.  Sonic took out a torchlight and checked every connection to ensure no short circuits or loose connections.

Then on went a familiar CD at its normal playback volume and....it was really soft!

No matter.  These are brand new cables so CD gets played over and over while Sonic got on with work and things.

A couple of hours later I come back and the volume is now LOUD!

So restored normal listening levels then sat down for a quick listen and the BASS was more than I ever got from these Magneplanars without a subwoofer Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Slightly but definitely deeper, more even in bass response and the upper partials are more in phase so the overall clarity of what is going on in the bass end is not in doubt.    

The rest of the range (mids and highs) sounds like there needs to be a lot of settling ahead before I can make a determination of the sound but that is exactly to be expected. So intense running in over the next few days.  Sonic is not touching anything else in the system and certainly resisting the urge to cut 4 inch lengths of T3 and use them as jumpers to the quasi-ribbon tweeters.

As Sonic is writing this post, having switched CD to a Handel work, I am already hearing advantages from the T3s but Sonic is going to wait before commenting. If I am imagining the improvement, that is normal. But if it is already this good just three+ hours of musick playing time, these cables might just be mind-blowing in 10 days!

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 22, 2015 1:35 pm

Hi Sonic

Glad to see you got the Bare Essence safe and sound. The shop does a lot better job of packing but I did what I could Smile so thanks, I appreciate that.


I wanted to try to keep the cable in a fair size loop, and this size felt pretty good to me.

Yes, this is 22gauge mild copper with a lighter jacket. It's desert slow cured which is my personal favorite, so I hope once it settles in nicely it does the trick. In time we might want to de-torque, but just let the Essence do it's thing for a while. You can see why I didn't want to strip it at 1" without my tools.

With the Bare Essence you can pretty much shape the field to how ever you like it, so in this way, it might be the perfect cable for the experimental Tunee to own. I hope I gave you enough to play with. There are a few places in the system you might want to try the Essence.

sonic said

"Michael, I thought we in the Tune prefer alloy or coated nickel over copper conductors?"

mg

Something that I've noticed more in recent years is how runs of cable have their own unique character to them. I've also discovered the way I voice them makes a huge contribution to the sound, and for cables (not necessarily connectors) this particular copper does some super nice tone and dynamics. It also makes for great field tuning.

I know other companies make something and then stick to their story come H or High water, but as you guys know that's not me Smile I always go after the natural character of the fundamentals & harmonic relationships first.

Saying this, if you look at the Wire & Cable product page on here you'll see that I made this particular move a while ago, and have stayed with these runs for a few years.

performance

I think your really going to like the weight of the harmonics with these (all 3 Types). Timbre of the instruments are going to come alive far more than before, and you are going to hear some "real" instruments Exclamation Right around the 3 month timeline (I do constant play) there is a gel that happens that for me at least took my breath away. I thought it must have been a part finally burning in, but in time I realized it was the Essence that had gone to a place that was extreme music. I'm glad I called it Bare Essence cause that's what I was getting, a completeness to the textures. The expressions of each instrument kept growing as the wire aged and some pieces that I have that are now close to 5 years old are like treasure to me. Take my wire and loose your arm type of thing Laughing . You can hack my bank account and rob my house but please leave the wire Laughing

have fun Exclamation and let me know how the settling is going so I can tell what stage the breakin is at.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeMon Jun 22, 2015 1:59 pm

The PZC question Question

The PZC to me is like choosing musical instruments. As with the LTR Blocks and all of the wood products that we do each has it's own flavor and learning those flavors over time are a help to decide which one may be the best for a particular area of the room, or a flavor you wish to create. Here's the thing to always remember, all wood instruments change through the seasons, this is why we build storage rooms and performance rooms at certain levels of temps and humidity. The PZC is no different.

The corner to center trick is something I use to hear where the PZC is at, tonally. It's not so much which direction is right but more which direction of the voicing I want to use for what. When I pick out wood, if I hold it a certain way the tone will go one direction, but holding it another it will do the opposite. I don't want folks to go nuts here cause if you spend too much time making these adjustments your going to put the PZC out of pitch and then have to wait to listen until it settles. It's one of those things where a little knowledge can be dangerous silent

With PZC's we're not talking about turns, but small adjustments and that's important to get straight in our heads and in our ears. The cool thing is, again once you start to hear it in the music you will learn to know what to do to make the desired change.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 23, 2015 9:42 am

DAY 2 WITH T3

The tone of the system is getting more natural, plucks on the violin, viola and cello have transients and now Sonic hears the body of the instrument behind the pluck.

Listening to Palestrina’s Missa Benedicta Es (Gimell), there was a slight impression I was listening to the choir and hearing the acoustic from the nave of the church where the recording was made.

Then on Eric Andersen’s Blue River (Columbia), the instrument and voice have more harmonic complexity than before, huge bass too. All this being heard by Sonic on CD, not even LP or SACD. Sonic must start spinning them LPs.

Some aspects of the sound needs acclimatization – there is a dry, extended treble yet Sonic is not aware there is a tweeter playing/creating the highs.  So the sound is “fuller” and “darker” yet no inner detail is missing. A bit like what I heard in a hi-fi system once in a woodframe drywall house. What is missing is the midrange glare that we had long put down to my concrete walls and ceiling.  Now it appears a contributor to that signature was the split T2 cables.

The Tune instinct is telling me to go T3 with the jumpers to the ribbon tweeter as well.  This might remove more of the room concrete sound. Do you think this is a good idea in a week or two, Michael?

Yet the sound on Day 2 with T3, Sonic is feeling this sound is getting so good I don't want to make any changes but just let it settle.

Sonic


Last edited by Sonic.beaver on Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Improved formatting, changed text, added sentence)
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 23, 2015 5:16 pm

Hi Sonic

You know me, let it settle so you are able to have a good reference in your ears and notes to go back to. Around the 7th day (depending on how much used) there is usually a break through for me.

Interesting how tweeters dissapear isn't it Exclamation I'm very happy the maggies are responding well, this gives us a new chapter for you.

The pressure zones around the room are going to be re-born, but don't start making changes yet, just enjoy the breakin.

good job young man Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2015 10:32 am


DAY 3 WITH T3

As more settling progresses, Sonic thinks "not that much changed today"....but then a couple of hours of listening I am noticing in the middle of the soundstage, image size and presence have increased in a way that is not a frequency-driven projection (that is boost the 1kHz to 3 kHz range to get a projected mid).

At first I thought the flatter and more extended bass might be contributing to this presence but this presence goes beyond the bass range all the way to the cymbals.

However when we move to the right and left portions of the soundstage (towards the side walls), Sonic is getting variable effects that might tell me on one record that the soundstage is larger and on the next track, narrower.

For the curious among Tunees, three strands of 22 AWG are equivalent in conductor area to something between 17 and 18 AWG.

With the results Sonic is getting with the T3, I think Sonic went to too thin cables and messed up my sound for years and it is a testimony to Michael's insights and the power/versatility of the Tune that Sonic managed to balance out such a fundamental mistake. Now with the T3 Sonic can hear the system is relaxing and the signal is freeing up.

Of course while Sonic may run the temptation to over correct by upping the thickness of cabling everywhere, I will be sticking to T1 for the quasi-ribbon tweeter links for my Magneplanar 1.5QRs while there is a case to go T2/T2 for my mains -- that is one T2 pair for the Live and one T2 pair for the Neutral of the supply to the mains powers boxes.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning My Musical Journey   Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2015 8:52 am

DAY 5 WITH T3

In my June 23 post, Sonic wrote just hours after installing the T3 speaker cables from Michael: “Listening to Palestrina’s Missa Benedicta Es (Gimell), there was a slight impression I was listening to the choir and hearing the acoustic from the nave of the church where the recording was made.”

I actually shortchanged the observation by putting the description that way.

What Sonic actually heard and observed should have been  “there was a slight impression I was listening to the choir focused near the front wall and hearing the acoustic of the nave of the church where the recording was made surrounding me”.  

Yesterday (Day 4 with T3), Sonic listened to a CD of Saint-Saens Concerto for cello and orchestra No. 1 in A minor and Max Bruch’s Kol Nidrei op. 47 Pierre Fournier, cello with the Orchestre Lamoureux J Martinon. The highs are still dry, now a little rough on this recording but the scale of the cello and orchestra and the bass is very good. The cello tone is right and the weight of the orchestral basses and the grand casse struck with a damped mallet is remarkable.  

Sonic also listened to Bill Evans and Jeremy Steig’s What’s New on two consecutive days. On the first day, Evan’s piano was big, had good weight and sounded convincing, while Steig’s flute had body, did not sound like a piccolo, the plosives of his breath showed the strength in his playing. The bass reproduction was variable, full and realistic on some tracks but thin and lightweight on other tracks.  But on the following day, the bass had filled out and is now weighty where it was light 24 hours earlier.  The flute is sounding big with a breezy “weekend” feeling to it which, on a Friday evening is nice to hear.

Here are pix of Sonic’s installation:

Tuning My Musical Journey - Page 11 S367

With the bass more detailed and weighty, Sonic can play records at much louder levels without any sign of the “room overload” that I experienced previously. Must be careful with my hearing.  

Sonic thinks certainly it is T2/T2 for the power box.  I am very happy with the heavier cable combination from Michael Green though the new T1 (straight as delivered from MGA, not uncoiled T2s) will be used for the jumpers to the quasi ribbon tweeters.    

Let’s see what happens on the 7th day of running in these cables as Michael said things appear at this time.

Sonic
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