Tuning My Musical Journey

Hi Sonic

The one thing that I struggle with in designing is "did I go too far", "is the listener going to pick up on energy control". Once we hear the energy, we know it's there but sometimes we can be inches away from the application that brings things into harmony.

I hear someone say something about a product and I can feel the wheels turning and it makes me want to jump in and explore. Unfortunately energy, as similar as it is in the overall, takes on different purpose in different areas of the world. It's kinda like the Schumann Resonance thing. People try to say it's all about a specific frequency, but this has never be so in practical application measuring or hearing. It's easy to get stuck in a one way street thinking and get lost when we start to deal with two way traffic.

The Space Cone material and shape and application is one of those mysterious combinations, that for me anyway, screams energy control. It's one of those products I can set down and nothing happens at all, and by moving it an inch can transform my listening. I use it in combos of different wood and can come up with some amazing sounds. Amazing sounds from areas in the room or even home that take me by surprise. One thing they make me respect is the fundamental interactions between the forces. Again I encourage people to take me serious when I talk about "fundamental interaction" .

"Fundamental interactions, also known as fundamental forces, are the interactions in physical systems that don't appear to be reducible to more basic interactions. There are four conventionally accepted fundamental interactions—gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. Each one is understood as the dynamics of a field. The gravitational force is modeled as a continuous classical field. The other three are each modeled as discrete quantum fields, and exhibit a measurable unit or elementary particle."

This hobby we have is a great science lab for energy interaction.

Did I go too far designing the Space Cone  I don't know, but using them makes me want to go even further

enjoying your walk very much Sonic

I believe your starting to see energy for what it is and how it's ever present flow affects what we are doing. Might I suggest the next time you hear the Space Cones become too over powering you think of them as tuners and find the scale, if your environment can develope scale. See what I mean?

one last thing that helps me

As you are doing, think of the name "Space Cone". A Space Cone is very much like when you press the string against the fretboard.

"The fingerboard (also known as a fretboard on fretted instruments) is an important component of most stringed instruments. It is a thin, long strip of material, usually wood, that is laminated to the front of the neck of an instrument. The strings run over the fingerboard, between the nut and bridge. To play the instrument, a musician presses strings down to the fingerboard to change the vibrating length, changing the pitch."

Your space and everything in it is a musical instrument, when we start to drift into audiophile-ism it's important to come back to reality. Nice job

Greetings Zonees

A discovery Sonic made not related to Space Cones, though that Adventure is progressing. Sonic's equipment this evening was warmed up nicely with the playing of CDs, and the tube phono stage was powered up with the rest of the equipment but with no signal running through it. Then after several hours of digital play Sonic switched off the CD player and started the Turntable and played a record to commence the best part of a musical evening -- the playing of LPs. I soon learnt what the Ortofon 2M Blue sounds like from a cold start which Sonic did not notice the extent of when playing musick.

Sonic put Shakespeare's Sonnets read by Members of the Marlowe Society, recorded under the auspices of the British Council (Argo) on the Rega P5. The male voices reading the Bard's works were rather nasal. Remember Sonic has observed that the human voice is one of the most difficult tests of Tone for an audio playback system and yes, the voices were nasal. Then as the record played and sonnet after sonnet was read, the sound warmed up and the nasality receded. By the time we got about 2/3 through the first side the voices were sounding full and realistic. However, Sonic found the warmth, girth and realism took another side for the Ortofon 2M Blue to sound truly right.

Michael, can you explain this? Is it the cartridge warming up, the rotating turntable settling in or the phono stage which though the tubes are nice and hot need signal to settle in?

A discovery indeed for Sonic. While the Space Cone Adventure progresses.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

I can't speak for others but for me (depending on the table & cartridge) I ran my tables about 15 minutes before playing them. Each table has it's prime running time. Depending on what table you have the pitch will shift after it's running a while and goes through a few start and stops. I knew guys who could even do continous play to get the best rotation. I was never so good, always afraid of getting skid. So I was always a dead start and stop.

15 minutes of pre-run, stop, quickly get it placed, fire back up, wait about 3 minutes, then start. About the 3rd or 4th side was when I started to get into it. About the 7th or 8th side is when I would be done. But if I was on one of my crazed sessions I would walk away for 30 minutes or so and start over the same way.

Every setup is different and I learned a lot by watching others who were more experienced than me to pick up tips. Keep in mind, I was fairly a newbee about tables because I spent more time with R2R, and got my chops down on tables through the audiophile ropes not pro. I had a fair amount of them and tweaked, but didn't really consider myself as the authority. I seriously got into tables about the same time I got into CD's. Tables for me (besides when I was very young) was a tool audiophiles said I needed to have and I got into it because I was crazy in my study of new audio things. Had a huge collection and lot's of tables, but don't think I had the same respect for them like I did reel to reel. well maybe  

So my answer would be all of the above. One thing I'm certain of, is the signal of any particular recording is a fresh or close to fresh breakin every time you play it.

you know maybe I did get into vinyl more than I said, cause a lot of people had me setup theirs, hmmm. well it didn't seem like I was all that knowledgeable, still doesn't.

Greetings Michael

This is an important thing for Sonic that you just wrote about in settling the turntable It jells exactly with what I hear and a practice developed here by hearing alone. When Sonic plans an evening of LP listening, I power up the CD player, phono stage, preamp, Sound Effect Amplifier and amplifier and Sonic also starts the turntable at the same time. The warm up and initial listening is with CDs. In this way by time the first LP goes on the platter the turntable will have been in operation for some three hours though in a no-load condition. I have found this to sound better than starting the Rega up and playing a record right away, things sound more “right” and “realistic” though the cartridge needs a side to warm up if it is the first record.

When playing LPs, Sonic does not stop the table between records. Without a record clamp I can easily remove an LP and turn it over or put another one on without any problems of slip or slowing the platter accidentally and stretching the belt. Of course this practice is not possible when playing microgroove 10” or 7” records. In these cases the ‘table has to be stopped and restarted.

Sonic has found that the six Space Cones described in my post of 16 October is making good musick, their placements along the wall is in the ballpark and now to optimize the positions given what you said that a move of 1” can make the difference between no effect to a transformed sound. But Sonic has to take a disciplined approach and let settling take place and gauge the change in sound every step of the way.

Sonic has this Question: in your 16 October post on this thread you said this about Space Cones “I use it in combos of different wood and can come up with some amazing sounds. Amazing sounds from areas in the room or even home that take me by surprise.”

Sonic understands your first sentence – in addition to MW (a form of basswood), I also have Low Tone Redwood, balsa, Chinese poplar and an unidentified dark wood Michael sent me and Sonic will try these. Elaborate though on “Amazing sounds from areas in the room or even home that take me by surprise.” What do mean by “even home”?

Are you saying that use of Space Cones beyond the immediate listening zone can affect the sound of the system within the room?

Sonic can understand this if it applies to listening rooms that open into other spaces – like some of your own, Hiend001’s, Drewster’s and tjbhuler’s. And this therefore does not apply to Tunees who have rooms that closed off by doors to the rest of the building like Garp’s and Sonic’s.

I hope I am correct that beyond the electrical wiring and tuning the fuse box the rest of the dwelling, house, apartment can be ignored as long as listening is done with the doors completely shut. Otherwise, it will be a very strange universe where the next room and the next will need to be tuned…..imagine showing up at a neighbor’s door and saying “Hi, I am your neighbor in the next apartment that you share a common wall with. May I stick this tiny brass cone at the top of your ceiling and this tiny pillow at the corner over there, it will make the sound in my hifi next door very much better”

Sonic

THE SPACE CONE ADVENTURE – DAY 6

Hey Michael – give your views on my question of yesterday about “even the home”.

To report here five developments with the Space Cones that makes for progress in this Adventure:

Firstly, the sound is very enjoyable with improved low end authority, a musical treble yet with no hint (yet) of any midrangey upshift that Sonic has evidenced from previous applications of the Space Cones. The sound is beginning on some records to be actually somewhat (though not completely) present in the recording venue.

Secondly, I have noticed earlier that in this system as orchestral and chamber music dies away at the end of a passage or movement or work, right at the end of audibility the sounds shifts up in pitch. Now with the Space Cones, it doesn’t happen anymore. The pitch holds all the way in the fade off to inaudibility.

Thirdly, to test what Michael said about alternative materials with the Space Cones, Sonic tried substituting the MW squares under the Space Cones with Low Tone Redwood blocks (all six at one go). An hour of CD play showed too much warmth like difference between the Sennheiser HD800 versus the HD650 if any Zonees knows what Sonic is getting at. Yet this Tune gets a mark of possible application in a combination with MW. I may need to try to get more Low Tone Redwood blocks from Michael because this sort of shifting about is a zero-sum game of sorts where one successful Tune application is robbed to support another Tune elsewhere.

Fourthly, Sonic tried balsa under the Space Cones briefly. Sound went light quickly so that with a recording of a baroque orchestra the cello line was boosted (which is attractive in itself) but then Sonic noticed that the contra bass line was weakened seriously. I hear improved dimensionality of instruments like violins, horn instruments (now horn loudspeakers) and such. If balsa is as great as Michael says, then Sonic’s system is not yet at the level to make it work.

Fifthly, Sonic got all the Space Cones I have back from a friend and audiofan whose listening room Sonic helped tune very successfully by using Michael Green’s genuine Corner Tunes and EchoTunes, along with repositioning of speakers and of the listening seat the way Mr Green teaches. The Space Cones were used to tune the glass windows but they didn’t work so were taken down. So they are back with Sonic to expand this Adventure. Now there are plenty of Space Cones around but these reside in my tuning closet. Sonic knows that a fast application of these Space Cones without settling and thought will get me back to the midrangey sound that has so been avoided till now although Sonic thinks it is sitting there under the surface right now in balance and one wrong Space Cone and it comes back.

More….

Sonic

Sonic asks

"Sonic has this Question: in your 16 October post on this thread you said this about Space Cones “I use it in combos of different wood and can come up with some amazing sounds. Amazing sounds from areas in the room or even home that take me by surprise.”

Sonic understands your first sentence – in addition to MW (a form of basswood), I also have Low Tone Redwood, balsa, Chinese poplar and an unidentified dark wood Michael sent me and Sonic will try these. Elaborate though on “Amazing sounds from areas in the room or even home that take me by surprise.” What do mean by “even home”?

Are you saying that use of Space Cones beyond the immediate listening zone can affect the sound of the system within the room?

Sonic can understand this if it applies to listening rooms that open into other spaces – like some of your own, Hiend001’s, Drewster’s and tjbhuler’s. And this therefore does not apply to Tunees who have rooms that closed off by doors to the rest of the building like Garp’s and Sonic’s.

I hope I am correct that beyond the electrical wiring and tuning the fuse box the rest of the dwelling, house, apartment can be ignored as long as listening is done with the doors completely shut. Otherwise, it will be a very strange universe where the next room and the next will need to be tuned…..imagine showing up at a neighbor’s door and saying “Hi, I am your neighbor in the next apartment that you share a common wall with. May I stick this tiny brass cone at the top of your ceiling and this tiny pillow at the corner over there, it will make the sound in my hifi next door very much better”

mg

We may shut the door to our rooms, but the physics of "fundamental interactions" don't recognize this as a boundary.

let me give a simple example on the mechanical acoustical end

Your sitting in your room and a big truck goes by, or neighborhood teen with his sub. You hear it, sometimes feel it.

here's another

Yesterday was a dry day, today it pours of rain. Your door is shut, but it still changes the sound.

The forces of nature are the number one dictators of your sound, and this two way street of intermingling isn't limited to the average enclosed room, or home, or even neighbors home. The point of disipation makes it's own physics rules based on your particular and unique system. As I said it is your systems energy going out and physics coming in. Fair exchange!

I'm in my writing room and just felt the traffic chopper go over head. More though than feeling and hearing that chopper, think of all the long range energy that plays a part in your system.

big world

I encourage listeners to go back and read Sonics last post.

Learning how energy fits in physics is one thing, applying physics is a bit more challenging.

The thing I have noticed over the many years and try to preach is not to get brand struck. There is much more to learn about the hobby by working with a design that you feel comfortable with and have learned to understand it's abilities.

let me explain this

Our bodies work on a few systems of physics that allows us to feel, hear and take in mentally the different parts of this hobby. Example: I'm working on speakers right now and as I do some of the laws according to the "audiophile" way of thinking don't fit with what I experience. I run my drive units, both woofer and tweeter as crossover free as I can get them. Why? So I can hear not only their true frequency ranges but also so I can experience my environments range.

Our systems (environments) cover the entire frequency range from bottom to top. It starts all the way down to the Earth's fundamental tones measuring at 3 hz (even lower) and rises past light. We as audiophiles try to sum up things as 16hz-28khz on a very good day but the truth is the range doesn't stop to play favorites. Cycles don't end until they take the next step in formation. The reality is, your listening to 40khz as much as you are 9khz. You may not think you are, but it's there having some affect on your system and experience.

I'll be back

Sonic:

I have been away from the forum for awhile but just read your adventures and improvements made by the addition of an equalizer.

I applaud the detail of your progress and your even, careful methodologies.

In short, you have made a typically "negative" topic into a very thought provoking and POSITIVE TOPIC; ie Equalizers in Audiophile land!

Well Done!

Kind Regards,

Ron

Greetings Michael

Great comments in teaching the Tune to Zonees and Sonic    

A question that follows then is: “what are the rules of tuning/steps of tuning for Sonic to apply to the room on the other side of my listening room doors?”  

There will be furniture, carpets and things that are associated with a dwelling. Give me a room with a sound system and Sonic can see the Tuning steps (treat the tricorners, mid wall seams, reduce or manage the amount of “acoustic burn” in room etc. But what about adjacent spaces where no music plays?

Greetings Ron!

Good to hear from you again     Thanks for the comments. Sonic is very happy with the Sound Effect Amplifier, how its base setting improved the sound and the rest of its adjustments give me a lot of flexibility. Yes, this is one of my better investments into good sound.

THE SPACE CONE ADVENTURE – DAY 7

Oh oh…it seems that after days of satisfying musick with six Space Cones atop MW as described in my post of 16 October the system is heading in an untoward direction. I am again detecting the midrangy sound that Sonic has associated with the Space Cones but not as bad as before but Sonic can sense its presence driving the edge of musick      And Sonic thought I got it right this time -- Sonic believes my hypothesis on how the Space Cones work is valid but it seems there aren't any favourable tones around for me to re-radiate. At least none I can find.

My conclusion came through an accidental discovery. You see, there is also another test I have been recently applying to my system to test how properly it is tuning in.  With the room in its most happily tuned-in state recently and particularly with the SEA-10, Sonic discovered that listening to the musick leaking from my listening room into the adjacent space through closed listening room doors, I could hear the bass in the music playing behind the doors in the listening room. I have learnt that the more deep and full bass I can hear on the other side, the bigger and more whole is the sound in the listening room. If I heard no bass or reduced bass in the adjacent space, the sound in the listening room will likely be thinned or shifted up.

Last evening, Sonic had musick playing when I had to go out and take a phone call. As I was speaking and later after the end of the call Sonic was disturbed – I could hear little bass through the closed doors. Then as I listened more from inside the music/listening room, Sonic had to admit what I was beginning to suspect – the Space Cone sound was back.  With disquiet, I shut down the system and removed the Space Cones and MW and let things settle overnight.

Today after work, Sonic powered the system up and put the warm-up CD on.  A couple of hours on, I checked the sound by listening in the space on the other side of doors.  And the bass was again powerful and deep.  Going back into the listening room Sonic realized the sound was again less midrangey than yesterday and tonally correct in a way Sonic relates to live classical musick.

Michael – your views?  Sonic must ponder this….  

Sonic

Greetings Zonees

This evening Sonic warmed the system up properly and played some Haydn Baryton Trios (B Kakuk -- Baryton, P Lukacs -- Viola, T Parkanyi -- Cello: Hungaroton CD). I have to accept it, the system sounds more full without the Space Cones and MW pieces. The transients and midrange projection is less but more akin to what Sonic hears of this type of musick in live concerts. It is a good sound and therefore Sonic has nothing to complain about. So that is the conclusion of The Space Cone Adventure for now. In time this will work Sonic guesses. There seems some parallel between the behavior of Space Cones and Balsa in this system.

Michael -- your comments and advice?

Sonic

THE SPACE CONE ADVENTURE – DAY 10

Still no word from Michael

Sonic was hoping to get his guidance (which is always spot on) before trying this but Sonic is possibly tenacious by nature so I attempted something different to see if I could make the Space Cones work.

The thinking is: Sonic is a “linearist” in how I Tune. If something works after settling, Sonic goes on to enjoy the musick until the Tune Instinct, something seen on Tuneland or a remark by Michael gets Sonic to try the next tune. On the other hand if said the Tune fails, Sonic defaults back to the last good spot, the System Restore Point. In events where the tune is working provably, this becomes the nw base setting for the next Action of Tune and so on Sonic proceeds. Linearly. Rarely does Sonic inject something radically disruptive or try things in combinations.

“Rarely” does not equate to “never”. I was dejected after my last post…..this Space Cone thing keeps failing. Why? Another approach might have to be taken. And Sonic has an Idea  

Idea: what if given this room (hard walls and such) is inherently in a state that tilts to imbalance? Then the “linearist” approach may have its limitations. Worthy Tunes that work in drywall and wood spaces and different climates may interact with this room and tilts to imbalance. Now Sonic knows there are some tunes that I have carried out previously that cause the bass and lower midrange to go fat, slow and bloated.  The Space Cones on MW in the particular Pressure Zones Sonic found are nearly right but they still thin out the bass and give too much “bite” in the upper mids and lower treble.  What if Sonic combined the two and used the Sound Effect Amplifier to trim things right?  

“Worth a try!” thinks Sonic    

The Tune that makes the bass and lower midrange go fat is by placing genuine hand-wound Harmonic Springs from Michael Green under the main amplifier.  Sonic till now has four machine wound Harmonic Springs from Mr Green in this application which works well. So these were substituted by four hand-wound Harmonic Springs, the soft hand-wound Harmonic Springs separated from the amplifier casing by thin MW and sitting on Low Tone Redwood blocks.

For newer Zonees who have not seen these, this is what Sonic is talk about:



The sound started thickening and getting less airy. Sonic thought “lets really make this thing work”. So four more hand-wound Harmonic Springs from Michael Green went next under the JVC Equaliser. The sound was now as expected – a somewhat heavy mid-bass sound with exaggerations in the lower mids.

The six Space Cones on MW went back as in my post of 16 October.  The warm-up CD was played for several hours.

Then listening started with familiar classical CDs of musick of Michael Praetorius and Beethoven. There is a loss of volume for a given preamp setting. The tonal balance is different where the bass is a little overwarm and the lower treble is projected. No change in setting of the JVC SEA-10 has been made. The soundstage is as big as with the Space Cones on MW tune. It is a tonal balance Sonic is not accustomed to but yet not unpleasant as interpreted as unreal compared to the sound of live unamplified classical musick. We can observe that something has occurred with the sound by combining these two tunes who on their own are unsuitable.  

Has Sonic cracked the problem? It will take time to determine this. Sonic will now leave this here, keep playing musick and discuss other thoughts over the next few weeks and see where this odd combination takes the musick in this room. Sonic will also think about the leadership that Hiend001 and Dr R Stesiak have taken with hard disk storage system which now we are seeing can exceed the Magnavox in performance.  Sonic needs to put rationalization in how to properly play back my growing collections 78 rpm and SP records. Should they be played through this system as an add-on or in a separate system in my dwelling.  Then there are Michael’s ideas on tuning adjacent spaces. And Sonic will shortly apply listening for bass through the closed door in the adjoining space. If that works we might be getting somewhere.

Sonic

Sonic asks

“what are the rules of tuning/steps of tuning for Sonic to apply to the room on the other side of my listening room doors?”

mg

Let me answer this by speaking for myself. What I notice is when I fill up rooms in the house my listening rooms become congested sounding. Kinda like, if I'm playing the snare drum and the tom toms get covered with a towel my snare becomes strained sounding (up tight). When I move around metal objects, like component chassis, I have to be very careful because these are not only antennas, but also field shields of sorts. The rooms outside your walls are a big part of what your wall sounds like, and fields as well outside your listening room can sometimes act like a big inductor. The room next to you is probably a box that has electric wires that run around the walls of that room. That's an inductor. If not they at least are enclosed, that's a capacitor. Third the wall may be exposed to the outside, that's a gate.

Sonic

There will be furniture, carpets and things that are associated with a dwelling. Give me a room with a sound system and Sonic can see the Tuning steps (treat the tricorners, mid wall seams, reduce or manage the amount of “acoustic burn” in room etc. But what about adjacent spaces where no music plays?

mg

What, you don't have the rest of your house tuned?

It's interesting when we start to use the rest of the house as a tuning device. Most people don't get to do this I know but this doesn't stop the rest of the house from interacting with our listening rooms.

Let me give you an example. Every door to any of my listening rooms are open. Not only are they open but they are all open to diferent degrees. They're all acting as ports for each other. Now I have had other houses that needed the door closed. It depends on the structure itself.

Hi Sonic

A Space Cone question for you.

In your notes, have you reported a certain time frame that the Space Cones go from doing what they do to thinning out?

What I'm suggesting, is there an energy field or cycle that takes place in your area that might coincide with the Space Cone rise to dip in force?

also

Are there any other changes that take place in your listening in cycles?

I have seen spaces that have energy drains and fills that happen in cycles before. All rooms do this to a degree, but some more powerful than others, especially with hard walls or when under ground.

Noooo….. ... Sonic’s head is about to explode at what Michael said…

"What I notice is when I fill up rooms in the house my listening rooms become congested sounding. Kinda like, if I'm playing the snare drum and the tom toms get covered with a towel my snare becomes strained sounding (up tight). The rooms outside your walls are a big part of what your wall sounds like, and fields as well outside your listening room can sometimes act like a big inductor......Third the wall may be exposed to the outside, that's a gate.
It's interesting when we start to use the rest of the house as a tuning device. Most people don't get to do this I know but this doesn't stop the rest of the house from interacting with our listening rooms.

Let me give you an example. Every door to any of my listening rooms are open. Not only are they open but they are all open to different degrees. They're all acting as ports for each other. Now I have had other houses that needed the door closed. It depends on the structure itself. "


This is too much….….yet Sonic cannot resist trying    

THE SPACE CONE ADVENTURE – DAY 11

After what Sonic said on DAY 10, I can with some certainty say on DAY 11 with settling overnight that this is not working. Sonic is getting a cocktail of tones that are hint of reality in some ranges (the upper bass/lower midrange) while other adjacent ranges are odd (lower treble). Time to folding this losin’ hand.

To answer Michael’s question about the Space Cone cycle as Sonic understands what he is asking, this is the cycle:

Earlier cycles:

Day 1 – promising to Good
Day 2 – Good
Day 3 – Good but…..
Day 4 – This is No Good, bass is thinned out, lower treble elevated, remove Space Cones

In about half of instances the removal happened as early as Day3.

This recent Space Cone Adventure took a little longer:

Day 1 - promising
Day 2 to 4 - Very Good (Sonic gets to think that this time it is working)
Day 5 - Good but wait, something is not quite there. Try adjustments
Day 6 - Try more adjustments, getting to understand this is wrong
Day 7 - It is wrong. Remove Space Cones

Michael, what cycles might you mean?

Michael, also what do you think of testing a system Tune by listening for fullness, tonal rightness from an adjacent room through closed doors or with open doors.  Is this a valid test?  

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Doing computer maintance, but will try to post.

Physics

Isn't it wild that we know this is all physics yet we get so got up in the definition of the hobby that we stop thinking physics.

let us ask the question, what is settling

We all hear settling, but what is it, and what exactly is settling?

The Earth itself starts and settles everyday, seasons settle, tides settle. Electrical cycles settle as they form patterns. Settling itself is forming patterns, but forming patterns while developing flow. This is why we say "current".

The holistic science of your system is based on, current, flow, pressure, oscillation, push pull, field. The fundamental forces.

What's one of the things I bring up often about your system? What's in that bookcase behind you? Why? Because of how close it is to your head and how much energy (good or bad) might be going on in that bookcase.

Sit in your chair and look at what is around you. No music, just sit there. Stay there until you start to "feel" the room. You may need to shut your eyes and open them a few times till you get what I mean, but feel the room. The more sensitive you are the faster it will come. If you get stuck get out your guitar and play in different parts until you feel the energy. But get to the place where you feel it. Now go sit in another room in your house, feel it. Your heart rate is different, your balance is different, your breathing is different and your awareness is different. Still stuck, take your guitar with you.

Take your time and do this in several rooms. Now walk outside about 10 feet away from your house, and then 25 feet. Feel the difference? Surprised at how much there is?

Let's take another look at this.

How do you feel when you wake up (make a note of this). Make a note half way through the day. Finally make a note right before you go to sleep. Make notes on this for about 4 days, and describe how your cycle is different and how much.

Your system is going through cycles, and you along with it. Something is happening consistantly and randomly as your system settles. Consistantly is in-tune and randomly is out-of-tune. You and your system also have peek points, kinda like tides. Your virtual awareness also works off of this. You hear something new, it settles, then you hear something else new (virtual attention span). Your thinking pattern goes through a cycle of attention.

It's easy to understand this with your guitar cause when it goes out of tune you've taught yourself how to logically put it back in tune. You also have made peace with it going in and out. It's natural right? Natural=nature=physics. You and your system works the same way as you and your guitar only with a broader brush.

Sonic

"Michael, also what do you think of testing a system Tune by listening for fullness, tonal rightness from an adjacent room through closed doors or with open doors. Is this a valid test? "

mg

Absolutely, much of my cues to tuning happens from other rooms. Not only that but also how my body reacts in those other rooms.

Greetings Michael

Sonic has returned to the System Restore Point to put things exactly as they were before I got the idea of introducing six Space Cones on MW. The system is sounding good again after a few hours of the warm-up CD played over and over. With this sound and the Sound Effects Amplifier to give me flexibility to adjust tone the tone of records when I need to, this is a sound Sonic would be very happy to live with – after all several people (unconnected with each other) have on different occasions listened and remarked on the sense of being at the performance and the surround field of sound from Sonic’s system.

Sonic will next try some of what Michael suggested – listening in a silent room, play guitar, try in other areas of my dwelling, etc. and report findings, but this will certainly take some time to get to a new way of expressing the sound of the Tune.

Yet Sonic is one to experiment. And just to give Michael a picture of what I have here, Sonic tried a test. I played a familiar CD for half an hour, then opened the doors on both sides of my room slightly by two inches and listened again. It sounded like a lot of pressure in the bass had been exhausted from the room. The midrange in the playing range of recorders and clarinets came too far forward….and Sonic noticed this sounded like (though not exactly the same) what the Space Cones do when they get to the 4th day reversal point.

What does this indicate, Michael?

Sonic

Greetings Michael and Zonees!

Hey, Michael -- one week and no sound from you! What's your observation on how my listening room responds to cracking open the doors? BTW when I crack open the doors on one side of the room, that side starts to sound like pressure is lost and the sound goes thin. What does this tell you about my room and listening conditions? Is this a good or a bad thing?

Otherwise, the sound over this week has been stable. I now find if I listen carefully, about half of the recordings Sonic plays could do with some extra correction (typically +/- 1db at most in one or two spots) using the SEA-10 Sound Effect Amplifier beyond the basic setting of a slightly boosted low bass and everything else at Neutral. Also Sonic found a UK pressing of Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited (original release, not a Reissue) for $10 (before cleaning) The record was in reasonably good condition except for the title track which had a nasty scratch with 5 clicks but no skipping of the Ortofon 2M Blue (good job, Ortofon ). Of course, the condition could be better but near perfect copies of this great record are selling for prices in the hundreds Ironic how this record, the first of Dylan's electric albums, had folkie fans walking away disgusted and Joan Baez calling him "Judas!"

Also Sonic is learning something new -- it is Timbral Listening.

I had known about this idea in my exploration of ethnic music but did not know the technical term. Sonic had read that certain forms of Asian and African music had practically no melody as we who are used to western music understand it. The artistry lay in how the few notes in the piece were changed by the musician in terms not of pitch or melody by tonal colour. For instance Japanese music for the Shakuhachi bamboo flute have timbral marks written into the scores. To some, this kind of music might be boring while to those who are able to listen in new ways, can open the mind and soul to new worlds of musick. Something Sonic is attempting to learn.

Sonic learnt of the technical term "Timbral Listening" when reading Positive Feedback Issue 78 where designer Shirokazu Yazaki's SPEC RSA M3 EX Real Sound amplifier was reviewed. Here is the section that got my attention:

"I believe that much of the difference boiled down to this: Japanese audio enthusiasts who were developing those DH-SET amplifiers 40 years ago were uniquely prepared by their culture to listen for different parameters of musical performance than was typical for most Westerners at that time, and they developed DH-SET amplification (and assembled audio systems) that optimized those musical elements.

I will point out that people in different cultures around the world listen to music differently, by placing more attention on listening to certain aspects of music's attributes than is common to other cultures. It might seem surprising, but the truth is that not everyone hears things the same way as you or I do when listening to the same piece of music.

For example, in most of Western culture, the conventional way of listening to and interpreting music is for the ear to focus in on pitch and harmony first. Yet in the traditional cultures of Turkey, Africa, and Japan, the listener's ear focuses in on the textures and colors of the music first—that's called 'timbral listening' by ethnomusicologists.

I think that those Japanese audio enthusiasts developing DH-SETs and building Altec-Onken horn loudspeaker systems were more discriminating when it came to listening for the timbral aspects of music because of the tradition of timbral listening in their culture, and those particular components they chose & refined excelled in reproducing those timbral traits. Those enthusiasts continued to develop and refine those systems so that their presentation of music's timbral and color elements were truly profound, and their timbral listening emphasis was expressed through equipment choices that maximized those qualities to result in a very different presentation of music than many listeners in the West were used to at the time.

So I think what happened as this new-old timbral way of listening to music was introduced to the West, was that it was mistakenly interpreted as being about the unique sound of horn loudspeakers combined with DH-SET amplification and vinyl front ends, but in reality it was an introduction to a beautiful expression of a particular culture's unique way of listening to music, timbral listening, and that when some of us in the West heard it for the first time it was a true 'aha moment' that changed the way we thought about listening to music.

The whole point of what I've been getting at by relaying these stories to you is that I think the same thing that happened 40 years ago with vacuum tubes & timbral listening in the development of DH-SETs in Japan is now happening again with the latest generation of class-D amplification devices & timbral listening in Japan. I think we may very well be living in another 'big' aha moment in audio history comparable to the one that happened with the DH-SET movement in Japan now over 40 years ago, but this time using class-D amplification devices.

I think that the superb tone color and rich timbral texture presentations are part of the reason that vacuum tube Japanese audio equipment from Kondo or Shindo, for example, have generated such a dedicated following among music enthusiasts, and those same aesthetic musical sensibilities that have informed their designs are now present in class-D amplification from Mr. Shirokazu Yazaki. So while the 'media' of their art forms differs in the amplification devices used, the beauty, tone color, timbral naturalness, and rich stereoscopic musicality that informs their designs is present in abundance in the SPEC RSA-M3 EX amplifier of Mr. Yazaki-san just as it is in those esteemed vacuum tube designs.

So here once again we have the 'enlightened ear' of a talented audio designer that has recognized and refined the possibilities of a promising amplification device, and this time it is in the form of a class-D amplifier instead of a directly heated single-ended-triode."

Since then, Sonic been attempting to listen in a new way -- hearing the change in the tonal palette in Renaissance, Baroque and Classical musick, jazz and the ethnic music I can get my hands on.

Wikipedia has a good page on Timbral Listening which Sonic recommends Zonees have a look at.

After I read it Sonic checked out the reference to Burundi whisper singing. This is a form of singing in whispers, a rhythmic-talking accompanied by a drone, percussion and a simple harp-like instrument.

In this Sonic hears the ancestor of Johnny Cash's talking blues and today's rap. In its original form, the inflection of the half-talking, half-whispered voice, shifting drone and sparse percussion makes for a mesmerizing , occasionally spooky listening experience. The hairs on my head rose when Sonic got immersed in this sound.

Sonic Beaver says "Timbre!"

Sonic

Hi Sonic

I've been at war with my computer this last week . Time for the next step in that direction, but she has served me well over these few years. When not in battle I've been spending time listening to the space of the house.

Where I'm writing, looking out my door I can see the door of Rm#2. It's ajar with my door by 3' meaning, if you go out my writing room door, take 3 tiles over and 7 tiles forward (these are 12" tiles) you will be at the entrance of Rm#2. My second floor landing is aprox 8'x8'. This landing has the stairs going down and 4 doors leading into different rooms.

I've been voicing Rm#2 with various tuned wood from my collection along with RT Pillows as the burn. While getting ready to put up a Brazilian Pine Tuning Board above the door way (inside), I set that board outside the room leaning against the railing going downstairs as went to get the drill. Coming back toward Rm#2 I heard a girth that caught my attention prompting me to listen before doing anything. As I sat there the only thing I could see that was different was the leaning board outside the room. I'm now making a Tuning Board that can have a home there.

sorry, had to reboot

When I listen in a completely tunable room, the door most of the time stays closed (not always), however in rooms that have rooms attached that have the build for a possible port for my listening more times than not I will try to take advantage of the space. Keep in mind I live alone and have the ability to slap myself on the wrist when I screw up. I would also have to say, that I enjoy working on spaces that may have these port options more than big rooms that have to be chopped down to size.

Hi Michael

Sonic is hoping that your "war" with the computer is being won by you!

I know how frustrating this stuff can be.

A couple more questions:

a. on your thread you showed pix of Cornertunes and Echotunes with a brown square illustrated/inserted over. From your comments in the text, Sonic is left none too clear what these squares are to represent. Are they pieces of treated wood that you supply to be mounted ahead of the pillow products in this way, or are they just to be pieces of Kraft paper taped to the walls?

b. what is the third picture of the Square supposed to be?

Sonic likes your idea about an intermediate point between the pillow products and the PZCs. In Sonic's case, doubled pillow productss -- A RT Square mounted ahead of the Cornertune did not work. Too bright when both reflective sides faced into the room and too dead and coloured when the RT Square forward of the Cornertune was turned so its absorptive side faced into the room (to wit, the two reflective sides faced each other).

c. also -- Sonic still is waiting for your explanation/insights into what I observed when cracking open the doors of my listening room, that is the sense of a loss of pressure and the sound tone going lightweight. The amount of "cracking" of the doors I applied is a 2 1/2 inch gap. I haven't experimented with more (like half open to 45 degrees) or less (perhaps 3/4 inch) because this action showed very quickly no promise to Sonic's hearing.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Every day the internet is slow or not running it adds a day or two of catch up, not fun but that's life


a. on your thread you showed pix of Cornertunes and Echotunes with a brown square illustrated/inserted over. From your comments in the text, Sonic is left none too clear what these squares are to represent. Are they pieces of treated wood that you supply to be mounted ahead of the pillow products in this way, or are they just to be pieces of Kraft paper taped to the walls?

b. what is the third picture of the Square supposed to be?



mg

These are voiced wood panels I have placed over the RT's. The last picture is one of these panels laying on a piece of black cardboard, laying on my floor. I put the cardboard there so you could see the panel more clear. I'll take more pictures of the different panels.

sonic

Sonic likes your idea about an intermediate point between the pillow products and the PZCs. In Sonic's case, doubled pillow productss -- A RT Square mounted ahead of the Cornertune did not work. Too bright when both reflective sides faced into the room and too dead and coloured when the RT Square forward of the Cornertune was turned so its absorptive side faced into the room (to wit, the two reflective sides faced each other).

c. also -- Sonic still is waiting for your explanation/insights into what I observed when cracking open the doors of my listening room, that is the sense of a loss of pressure and the sound tone going lightweight. The amount of "cracking" of the doors I applied is a 2 1/2 inch gap. I haven't experimented with more (like half open to 45 degrees) or less (perhaps 3/4 inch) because this action showed very quickly no promise to Sonic's hearing.

mg

Sorry, I thought my answer was within that post in what I do to give you some ideas.

If the listening is good with the doors closed, no problem, however when you posted what happened when the doors were open, once again I wanted to look at what is in the bookcase. That's just me though and the way my mind works.

Thanks for replying.

Genuine Michael Green Treated Wood over the CornerTunes and EchoTunes sounds (pun) like a good idea.

Your reply gives me some ideas to try this week but Sonic knows my fault is excessive haste in proclaiming success so I must be cautious, but some new steps can be taken since two weeks of settling will have occurred by the second half of this week.

Michael, yes I did read your question about what is in my bookcases. It is simply something so remote from the situation with the opening of the doors that Sonic did not connect the two.

The bookshelves are under half full. There is a lot of empty space. There are books, tools, CDs and spare vacuum tubes yet nothing is packed tight. What Sonic means is that if everything were packed compact and tight, only two shelves out of five will be filled. Right now everything is distributed across five shelves so the "packing" is very loose with lots of unused shelf space.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

What I will do is report on the different PZV (pressure zone voicer) that I am using "with pictures" so you get ideas. Again, this is nothing new for me and is how I ended up designing the PZC, I have always played with how to use the burn and membrane (barricade) as a team with the room. The toughest part is what someone uses as the wall attachment that holds the units in place. The voicing is something I have done forever and know how to go one direction or the other depending on what the listener tells me. The transfer to the mechanics of the room can be a different animal altogether. I think "do I make a series of attachment tools?" or is this something that is always going to be up to the listener to figure out and I supply a basic one size fits all, which is not my nature. I end up making far more skus than other designers, however seeing each listener find their perfect system is something I can't resist. It's the reason I don't always show pics.

The PZV's I knew was going to happen when I listened to you guys doing the kraft paper trick.

hopefully some interesting pictures soon

the bookcase

There's something going on there with the things in it. If it were me, I would start empty with as few shelves as possible and slowly start voicing it. But that's me.

Greetings Michael and Zonees

This week little tuning, more of mental exercises for Sonic to learn the Tune.  Been learning too from Hiend001 about how set up a hard disk storage system for my collection of CDs after reading of his experience. And in true spirit of Tune-camaraderie, Heind001 has been most helpful and Sonic got much of an idea how to get this going – and I probably will.  Heind001, thank you Sir!

Sonic also had this idea about echoey rooms.  I mean when an audiophile hears an echoey room what is the first thing that comes to mind?  It is “damp the room” right?

What if echoey rooms are just resonant spaces without tone content or an unbalanced tone content – if this theory that came to Sonic as I was half-awake thinking about acoustics is correct, the solution to an echoey room is not to damp (though some damping might be required) but to add the tone of wood?

In Sonic’s room, could all my issues be insufficient tonal colour due to the hard walls?

For this reason, Sonic has PM’d Mr Green and Harold asking about the cost of wood pieces that could be mounted ahead of my Corner Tunes and EchoTunes + perhaps more FS-PZCs.  Sonic thinks my upper room is starved of tonal colour.

Michael is right pointing out that the mounting method of those boards will add a sound but there is no way round that is there....Sonic means that even how PZCs are mounted in corners and on walls will have their own sound, won't they?

Someone suggested that Sonic just creates a false ceiling of drywall for my room. I can do that and it might be even permissible under my terms of use of the dwelling – Michael, is this a good idea?

One Tune Sonic tried this week is a follow through of the 3 over 4 rule.  My Sound Effects Amplifier sits on a four-legged table.  It (the Sound Effects Amplifier) sits on this table via MW and four Harmonic Springs. So this is 4 over 4 which may not be that good. So Sonic went to three Harmonic Springs.  Got improved tunefulness and tone though truth to tell, it is good but small effect. Maybe two of the Harmonic Springs could be soft hand wound Harmonic Springs from Michael.

Happily, Sonic found this record in a cheap sale!



For those who are into LPs, you will know this record went out of print after its initial pressing run and was never made again.  It is not available in CD either as far as Sonic knows.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Here are some of the PZV tools I have been using.



I designed the frame so you can interchange the F-board, mini ply birch and a voiced cork board (not pictured). Next is an individual plank board, meaning the boards are side by side but not gluded together, they are attached by a back frame.

There is then a thin voiced cork membrane with a back frame. Last the birch membrane with brazilian pine back strips.

drop ceiling

You can read about this on Robert Harison's thread. Done correctly it could be an interesting step.