Old Tunee - Newer System

I'm going to give a break down of garps new tuing toys.

here's the wood parts

What I would do is start with the setup above. It is probably hard to see in the pic but here's a down view.

Michael,

Thanks, I guessed correctly, but your pictures will help.

Now, its time to go play!

Wow! I will wait for some settling before posting more, but the Maggie platform has already taken the Maggie up two sonic levels.

fantastic

Should be a lot of flexibility, range wise, with those different parts. Keep me up to date.

The Maggie and MGD Mini Clamp work very well together. I was about to provide an update last weekend, but the tragic events that occurred in a Connecticut school saddened me to the point that I decided to postpone this update.


The Mini Clamp and all of the options included by Michael in his kit have been used. At the moment I am enjoying the poplar base set up as pictured in Michael’s post of the Mini Clamp kit. With this combination and my MR EM7 amp /CR4 preamp/Tonian speaker combo, the music is detailed with a halo around instruments and voices. Imaging and soundstage has improved. In my current setup, the soundstage is large in height, but not quite as deep with sound radiating very wide outside both speakers. I really enjoy acoustical instruments and the human voice with this arrangement, very organic. Since changing out the racks, re-arranging the floor standing PZCs and adding a European white spruce tuning board on the front wall behind the racks as well as placing a seasoned poplar board behind the MGD subwoofer’s port. (The sub is still passive), I am really enjoying the overall system balance.

Using the very light in weight Music Reference components with Maggie/Mini clamp, I am enjoying the best balance from bass to treble to date. The bass is surprising generated from this small 2 ½ watt SET amp. Upright bass is detailed and fast. I am hearing the MGD sub generating energy in this arrangement apparently augmenting the main speaker’s bass.

I am about to start working on my turntable project as we approach 2013. My tonearm supports the standard headshell clip ins, so I have been looking at some interesting wood headshells on the Yamamoto Soundcraft website. Yamamoto offers headshells in ebony, boxwood, and asada cherry. I suspect a Denon 103-R and Ortofon SPU MCs would work well with these wood headshells as well as many moving iron cartridges. Incidentally, Yamamoto seems to use wood products in there amp designs as well as many MGD like tweaks.

Meanwhile, I will continue using the many combinations supplied with the mini clamp and provide future posts.

Hi Garp

Fascinating site that Yamamoto Soundcraft truly is. I've started checking it out and it is helping to feed into my plans for Sonic's system for the coming year particularly when related to analog playback and what I might want to focus on.

Sonic

I haven’t posted on my thread for some time as I have really been enjoying the sound from the Maggie DVD player sitting atop the taller platform. The smaller platform now supports my Music Reference preamp connected to my MR 245.1 45tube amp.

Although I have a fondness for older US made 45s (RCA, Tung Sol, Sylvania, National Union), the bass response has not been what I would like despite very special midrange and treble. Recently, I acquired a pair of modern 245s tubes that look like large light bulbs. These tubes still bring the midrange magic and excellent treble with the addition of deep extended bass. With volume of my normal listening in the low 80s as measured from my Radio Shack Sound Level Meter, I am experiencing the best bass to date from this combo. My MGD music ply sub still remains in the room running passive and the sound pressure meter displays the same room response when placed close to the sub’s driver or rear port as when held in the listening position. I still believe the passive sub is augmenting the bass response in my room.

As I have posted on Sonics’ thread, it’s time to set up the Merrill TT.

Hi Garp

I was thinking the other day how nice it is to have these two worlds (the Maggie & TT) on TuneLand. The one thing that I think we need more of are classic systems here. In some strange way I look at the TL systems as being part of my own, esspecially when I know the listener and his flavor, style and background. I also like it that the tables that are showing up are some that I feel really good about. Not that it all has to be about me, but more that I can almost hear the sound through the words.

I have to tell you that, that forth system (tubes & tables) rolls around in my head quite a lot and I wonder if I'll ever stay put long enough to truly engage in the art again. I've seen a lot of people over the years put in tubes and talk. It's so nice to read someone who understands putting in tubes and listening

A pleasure reading your thread sir.

What a surprise when I arrived home from work tonight. My new mini platform arrived!

Now a surprise for Michael. He designed this platform for my MR SET amp and my Tonian speakers, but that’s not what was used in my set up tonight to break in the new platform. Almost two weeks ago, I began rearranging my audio room and I decided to pull out my MGA Music Ply 60s out of the closet to pair with a high end integrated 8 Watt SEP amp that I had spent a lot of time enjoying this summer. Although this amp weighs on the high end of amps that I find easily tuned, I really have enjoyed it’s sound and ability to create the MGA surround sound stage. It mates very well with the Maggie CD showing excellent mid bass and bass reproduction. This amp and the MGA 60s was a match at first listen. Although the amp is rated at only 8 watts, music played using the 60s sounds like the amp has 40 or 50 watts per channel. This integrated has the ability to show the best of the 60s while overshadowing some of its weaknesses in my opinion.

Tonight, I placed the amp on the new platform using the Maggie CD and the 60s and I was awestruck. My room was shaking from the mid bass and bass response. It was like I had a powered subwoofer in the room. There are so many things that I am hearing using the new platform, it will take some time for everything to settle before I offer some better insights. Right now, this is by far the best the 60s have sounded in my household. (For Sonic’s benefit, the mini platform sits atop a wooden rack with steel rods). Michael, it may be awhile before Roger’s amp can show its stuff, because I am really enjoying the 60s, the integrated, the Maggie, and the new platform.
More later.

  and again  

That baby should do about what ever you tell it to. It was a pleasure making it. When I put it on for a test run I about jumped out of my seat there was so much more music in my soundstage. My mini's became sats and subs without the sub, kinda like you described.

I'm building a twin for my own use  , you can't have all the fun.

thanks for the report

for those who didn't see it on my thread

Ooh Michael, When will my Platforms be ready  
I'm so jealous of Garp  
Can't wait to hear how it sounds like when inside my room  

Sorry Hiend, but your long wait will be worth it as it was for me. This platform is amazing. I am hearing as Michael added "so much more music in the soundstage" I have never heard as much bass energy out of the 60s without help from a sub. You can feel the bass as if played live at a small music venue.

I will be spending so more time tonight listening. If Michael's new products are as good as this new toy, I will be standing in line to order.

As they say "resistance is futile, earthlings"  

I'll probably start with music ply for shelves and FS-PZCs or get from Michael the wood fronts he made for the RoomTunes in Bill333's wonderful room.

Sonic beat me to the transition from rack to platform, but I finally rearranged my shelving on steel rods and brass spikes suspended six inches above the floor with the mini platform placed in the middle shelf with the Maggie CD player at the left as you face the system. I have a wooden table maybe twice the length of Sonic’s current turntable behind the racks which is suspended by brass spikes for isolation. I am hoping Michael can offer a top platform for this table to hold two turntables.

I am also using a vintage integrated amp an Eico HF 81 tubed of course with all nos Mullard tubes restored by a gentleman in Memphis. Although the amp is rated at 14 watts per channel, this ugly duckling is more than enough power for my 95 dB speakers. The Eico’s are not for those seeking eye candy to impress their friends, but those seeking exceptional sonics will be amazed by this late 1950s amp. As I have already shared privately with Michael, this amp already offers the biggest soundstage in height, width, and depth that I have experienced in my home. There seems to be a synergy between the Mullard tubes and this Eico. Yes, there is a warmth to the sound, but there is a surprising amount of detail, almost SET like. The bass is not as rounded as you might expect from a vintage tube amp using Mullard tubes. I am really enjoying this bass. Mullard tubes are known for their midrange and the treble does not disappoint. With the Eico, I am already experiencing some details in recordings that I thought my SET amps were better at conveying. Not so.

The biggest plus for me is I can listen to this amp all day long and not experience the fatigue that modern, sterile tube amps and all class d amps give me after listening to one cd. The Eico/Maggie/mini platform/lower shelving combo is sounding excellent!

Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Garp

Hi Garp

Moving away from the heavy racks to "platforms" made improvements to the sound. Better cohesion of the soundstage across its width and front to back. Some of this may be doe to the racks splitting up and dividing the stage.

Another benefit is to Sonic -- the equipment now being so low to the ground means I have to do push-ups to check for alignment and do adjustments while on the ground.

Good exercise and when I get real platforms they will be low to the ground too. So more exercise for Sonic which is good for me. True platforms have excellent sound and anything excessively tall will split the soundstage but Sonic wonders how will a platform-based system be adjusted and maintained by tunees who may have back problems, neck problems, knee or age-related issues.

Sonic

Sonic,

Yes, there are added advantages of low platforms for improving the fitness of we older tunes. As an older tunee, I find it harder to pedal 100 miles on a bicycle bent over the handlebars as I do in warmer months, or pedal up several difficult grade hills in 30 degree weather with a 20 mph headwind as I did yesterday for 30 miles. Bending over to turn on my amp and insert a cd in the Maggie is no problem at all, and the added musical enjoyment is priceless.

This past week I set up my MR preamp and MR 245.1 amp for the first time using the mini platform.  The addition of another shelf out front of the other shelves was suspended about 6 inches off the floor.  The preamp was placed atop the second Maggie platform that Michael included with the Maggie platform with the mini platform placed behind the preamp with the MR 245.1 amp sitting atop the mini platform. I have a turntable “table” supporting two turntables (Merrill Heirloom and Acoustic Solid Small Machine) placed directly behind the lower shelves.  Like Sonic has posted, adding more than one source is problematic for easily adjusting the components in the music chain, but I have some ideas for my set up that should help down the road.  Michael, don’t forget to see my PM regarding the TT table.

Now to the music.  The mini platform has really opened the potential for the 245.1 4 watt amp, and the sonics are the best that I have experienced with the amp in my room.  The MR components, Maggie, and Tonian speakers reproduce musical instruments much closer to real, maybe unnaturally so.  Piano is scary real with decays that never end and you the percussion of the keyboard is amazing.  There seems to be a better tonal balance than I noticed before.  Bass is much improved for a 45 tubed amp. I am one happy camper with addition of the mini platform.  

I have been using up vacation time the last few days, so I have spent long hours listening to this set up with Christmas music as well as other favorites on cd and vinyl.  In addition to all music forms of Christmas albums from blues to bluegrass, I have been enjoying jazz, pop, and small chamber works.  A very enjoyable break from work.  This morning, I have been listening to the group, Over the Rhine, from my home state, Ohio.  This group will be performing live in one my favorite clubs tonight, and I have tickets.  I hope everyone enjoys the upcoming holidays listening to lots of music.

I'm jealous     I wanta go with you   

Man how I miss those little venues.



Happy Holidays  

I just wanted to add a follow-up to my best live 2013 music experience, Over the Rhine live at 3rd and Linsley.  This club has had a major makeover since Michael lived in Nashville.  It has much better acoustics as well as stage placement and sound equipment.  I have not heard Over the Rhine live in recent years, but their latest album, Meet Me at the Edge, is their best work.  The singer/song writing team of Karin Bergquist and Linford Detweiler have added some very talented session players including Eric Heywood on pedal steel and lead guitar, Jay Bellerose on vintage 40s Slingerland drums dressed in rosewood,  Jennifer Condos on bass, and Nicholas Radina on guitar and cuatro.  When you listen to this group, you will hear flavors of jazz, blues, gospel, country as well as folk.  Like you know who, they do their best work while working independently.  There latest album was funded by their fans, recorded on the band’s own label with all songs of their own material.

I was fortunate to get a seat in the balcony overlooking center stage.  The sound surrounded me to the point that I felt like I was home in my tuned room, but no system can take the place of a live performance.  Eric Heywood’s pedal steel was amazing and often sounded like it was coming from behind me. Jay Bellerose’s drums provide a nice warm but powerful backing (He was the drummer on the Alison Krause/Robert Plant album).  The vocals of Karin and Linford were great.  They performed a long set comprised of old and new material with their original Christmas songs.  They also played two new songs they are recording for a 2014 Christmas album.  This was a nice early Christmas present!

  WOW   

nice   

Sonic, I have been watching your frustration with the tune recently and getting back on a promising tuneful path. Like you, I have had some frustration with my bass response using my small Music Reference components. My 2.5 Watt amp does not seem to have the satisfying bass response that I would like, but you can only go so far with 2.5 watts without using a sub. Despite the lack of deep bass, I have been treated with some of the best soundstage and tonality to date in my listening room. I credit the mini platform for this musical enjoyment. Using these very lightweight tube components makes it very easy to set up the MGA signature sound.

Michael, I have also been playing with my turntable table. Initially setting up one of my turntables on the table with no additional wood underneath, I was disappointed with the sound. Hard, grainy midrange with upper bass suck out. I placed the pine board that you sent me a few years ago to set up under the turntable rack, and WOW! The sound had an immediate improvement. I am continuing to allow this change to settle, but I have been listening to LPs all day enjoying the music. I will get back with your off-line about the sound board for setting atop this table.

Hi Garp

This is pretty much what I am finding here as well.

I have this thing for picking up solid wood tables. Mainly because I use them to lay out wood on but occasionally I'll use one for a resting table under a setup kinda like a sub platform for the platform to rest on. What I have found is that even the best sounding of them don't have the lowest of low tones going on. That means the low bass suffers and there seems to be not enough push or effortless gain. Setting one of the new platforms on top of them though makes a big difference. Even bigger difference is I built a table like I do the platforms and then built a platform to sit on top of it. Not only did the bottom drop but the cymbals turned into these midrange splashers and horns became liquid and full instead of hard.

I need to look for more pics of Bill333's equipment platform to share cause that's the idea. The table is with redwood and a Argentine Pine top, then a Platform that rest on this. If I had a bigger upstairs room I'd be doing this for sure. The one I made here (now taken apart) looked like a coffee table, then a plaform on top.



I played with Magic wood slats between the top and bottom along with other things including the spike configuration of 3 points. Everything I used really made a huge difference and I was able to get about any flavor I wanted. This thing pretty much smashed the sound of the tables I had bought and tried. It weighs BTW about a forth of the other tables I used, no doubt the secret.



Another one I made (above) had a B Pine frame with the Redwood running front to back like suspended joists. It doesn't go as far off the ground though 12".

Anyway thought I would share this as it looks like the table platform combo is going to be something folks look at.

Sonic’s recent posts regarding re-introducing a sub into his system has been of interest to me. As I have recently posted, the Music Reference tubed amp and pre-amp have been playing now for three weeks, but settling continues. The combined weight of these wood encased components is less than 12 pounds which is much lighter that most solid state and tubed equipment. The amp sits atop the smaller of the two Maggie platforms which has been placed atop the mini platform. The preamp has been placed atop a Magic Wood Cable Ground. The sound and harmonics continue to improve each day with the amp seemingly increasing in volume despite only 2.5 watts per channel.

This morning I read Michael and Sonic’s conversation regarding the addition and set up of a sub in a tunable system. Since I did not have either the lp or cd of Fleetwood Mac’s Rumors album handy, I pulled out the cd, Raising Sand/Robert Plant/Alison Krauss. I have not listened to this CD since inserting the Magnavox CD player into my system as I thought that drummer, Jay Bellerose’s drums completely dominated the CD in negative way with a typical highend CD player. I recently commented on seeing Jay Bellerose with another group in a recent live performance which gave me a better perspective of his playing style. Listening to the Raising Sands cd this morning with Maggie, I can finally get into this cd. While bass has improved without using a sub, the album no longer is dominated by the bass drowning out the other fine players on this album. There is finally a good balance in the sound. While Bellerose’s percussion is still prominent, it does not overshadow the other performer’s contributions and I am enjoying this CD for the first time. It is truly amazing the level of detail the Maggie is able to dig out of the cd.

I am really looking forward to adding the tabletop platform and a smaller platform. These recent products have lifted the Tune to another level. Sand away Michael, sand away.

Hi Garp

Sonic has heard so much about the legendary Mullards but in my system I found them giving a bit too much mid bass. So did Sonic hear from the experience with the EL34 p-p monoblock amp. I tis a good one with 4 EL34s per side giving 60W into 8 ohms -- it is a US brand whose products Sonic uses in my system too.

Usually the audiophiles I hang out with do not comment on the midrange dullness that you and Sonic mention. They call the sound slow. Whatever it is, tubes have a sound and I suspect the reason why we are commenting on this sound is because we no longer have tone controls in our systems or if we have, are afraid to use them....  

I have a Pioneer amp with 6BM8s which I drive my Fostexs with. Most of the time it does duty as a phono stage with EQ for my 78s and SPs. It is nice and gives out 7W or so.

My Experiment has come to a halt thanks to the quality of TJ (Tianjin) Full Music tubes -- see more in my post. This is the second time it happened...

Sonic