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 My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)

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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:53 am

So, the last post gave us the short story of how the components (electronics) became "less is more" for me. As the turn continued to happen the space where my ears and body were also took on new meaning.


Tj's SAM and Tunes

This is one of the places I hope we get to dive into this year through Tj's ears, so important study

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:50 am

Hi Michael and my fellow tuners

Funny that you have posted that as I just recently discovered something new concerning my SAM wall Laughing

As the study of tune is in progress, I have taken a slight detour from my usual PZ mapping and laminar flow reports. Recently I had a group of friends over for a listen.  These are my work colleagues who have always been curious about my hobby.
Well to be exact 2 of my work colleagues came by for a listen. These are guys who have good interest in listening music but never had the passion to own a system nor indulge themselves in a system apart than what comes out from thier oem car audio and PC setups Laughing . So off they were taking turns sitting down to get a listen. As the other walks around the room in amazment on all the PZC's and RT pillows placed around the room and asking questions what is it for and how does it help.

As the sense of curiosity within them seemed to be quite intense with amazment and disbelieve I decided to do a small demo to make them understand what I'm talking about. As one of them were sitting down and listening I decided to remove the MEC that had recently placed over at the sides of the wall beside me. Immidiately the responce I got from them was that vocals seems to have lost its focus and moved away from the center. This itself got them amazed and excited as they were begining to understand what the tunes is all about and when I told them how I can spend hours in the room. It was a cool demo that also reminded me that the tunes is so effective and that can be affected so easily with a small amount of change here and there that even a non trained ear could easily pick it up Exclamation .

As they were listening I was at the back of the room choosing another cd for them to listen since many request were coming from them on the types of songs they want to listen. As I was busy searching for the cds all of a sudden my friend said "now what magic did you do?" As I was unsure scratch of what he meant by that I asked him again what happened Question he said now the left side image of the stage is huge and "light" sounding. This got me confused as I didn't do anything and yet something happened. So I checked around over at the front side to see anything has been moved but nothing seems to be displaced. Moving to the back I noticed that some extra wooden block that I acquired from the reno works moved and was touching the back part of my SAM wall bracings. Could it be that this was causing all the change in the sound Question I moved them away and immidiately the responce from my friends was yes its back !! Once again balance in the force has been restored Laughing

This got me thinking on how could that have  happened and how could that amount of change occur with just a small wooden piece of  2"×3"×0.5" touching the bracings of SAM wall Question Now this was running at the back of my mind for the rest of the time entertaining them. I repeated it again without thier knowledge to see if that effect is repeatable and noticible. Based on thier expression one of my friend responded saying that something is not correct. I then quitely removed the wooden piece and the sound was back. Now I can understand if that piece of wood is placed at the front side of the SAM wall which affects big time but at the back touching the bracings was something that I never realised could affect the same intensity as the front Shocked . If you have a look at the picture posted by Michael above the SAM wall, you will see that I have small wooden chips that I custom made previously which are stuck around the SAM wall. These wooden chips are from excess woods that came from the lumberyard during my wood picking sessions last year. I use them to further tune certain aspect of the stage to bring out more details, presence and stage depending on the recordings. This experience of using wooden chips came about from previous postings I read in Michaels thread from his old website.

I have various type and size of wooden chips ranging from pinewood, rosewood, ironwood, merbau and ebony wood. I got them for free as the owner of the lumberyard had no use of them since they were originally cut outs from the wooden blocks that came in previously to the lumberyard. Out of all of them only the ebony wood has been shaped up to a circular disc with a small hole drilled at the center of it which I have also made custom metal bits to be used as an insert to those holes drilled. I have them placed all around my room just as way for me to understand the interaction of laminar flow at the walls and ceilings apart than using cardborads as guide. But for my SAM wall I'm using them as a part of my tuning aid which is helping me a lot to dial in on certain recordings.

From now on I will be looking closely at the back part of my SAM wall as a tuning port for me and not to be dependent on the front side only. Will report in more hopefully with more good tunes ahead!

A question to Michael how would you look at the back of the SAM wall when tuning it Question I'm thinking logically that I will tune it the same way as I do at the front part of the wooden panel. In this case on the back part of the wooden panel but after experiencing the effect on the bracings would that be a good place to tune Question

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:52 pm

Hello Michael and my fellow tuners,

Been a while since I posted here, work at times just gets you going by the time I get back home its either just too late to post up my latest tuning sessions on tuneland or even sit down and have a good listening session.

So after my previous success by introducing Michael's MEC's in the equation of my tuning artillery. My soundstage has expanded in all directions. Having music flying over and around my head which is an amazing expereince. Speakers seems to not exist and I finally have what others have previously expreienced and that is a "float". This is my best setting that I have ever gotten since I had my system. Everything seems to be working in synergy and harmony. Now theres some ups and downs that I experienced previously whenever I make a move tuning my room but I always bounce right back by correcting it and progressively improving on that aspect. This is because im able to make better predictions as i have mapped out my PZ's and understand better how they are interacting with my system amd room.

So being in a very satisfied point of my life well at least for now Laughing I decided to do some cleaning by removing my cushion seat that I kept at the back of my room and some tools that I previously used to assemble certain parts of my system and decided to bring in my old equipment rack to use it as a storage place in replacment of my cushion stool. Now knowing that everything affects our sound so I was very cautious with my move here. As I started removing my cushion and tools I was listening to my system each time I did so. Not to my surprise my soundstage collapsed massively Exclamation Gone was the float, 3D stage, bass and defined imaging. It literally felt that my bubble of PZ goodness surrounding my listening spot just "popped". I am now left with a flat 2D stage which sounds lower in volume and an akward sounding bass.

Current thoughts running in my mind :

1) Should I bring back in my cushion seat and let it be or should I continue to persue with my rack in my room and restart my tuning journey ?

2) With the rack in im able to tidy up my room and keep everthing more organized.

3)  Downfall I will have to restart everything from the beginning and build up the sound that I was getting previously. Who knows if i persue with the rack in I might be able to build it up and surpass what i was getting previously.

To me this is just a reminder as what Michael has been saying everything we do in our room and system affects the sound no matter how insignificant it may be!

The journey continues.... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:10 am

Hello Michael and my fellow tuners

Picking up from my last post I have decided to bring back my stool and remove the rack from my room and decided to re-tune my room from scratch. Now why I removed the rack was because during the course of me tuning up room with the racks in I realized the height was affecting my front stage which I cant do anything about it. However it has given me an idea which I will soon try by introducing a box which I have at the same height as my stool, so for now the stool is back in.

What I have done now is a total reset by removing all tuning tools (pzc fs, mec, RT pillow and resonators). I started off by tuning my front wall, side walls and ceilings once again. Well this makes sense as the walls have been resting in the room with a slight tension on them using the bolts. As mentioned previously by Michael the wooden panels needs to be in the room with my dehumidifier on and to be acclamitised with the room. My room has been up and running for the past 3 months and some of those bolts that I have kept it slightly tightened are now slightly tighter or loosen. This is all due to the flexing and resting of my wooden panels standing erected and with the humidity of my room for the past 3 months.  So off I went by removing everything that I have installed previously. My SAM wall which was heavily decorated with all sorts of tuning aids have been removed  Laughing . I brought in my stool, standing fan and dehumidifier which has been placed back to its exact original place.

With everything removed the frst thing I noticed was it sounded very "echoey". Stage has collapsed massively no proper imaging everything sounds light blur, distant and uninvolving. What a big difference it made  Exclamation  Well this is something I expected and am very well aware how effectve Michael's RT products are. As I mentioned my first step was to tune up my walls(wooden panels). I remembered when I did them 3 months ago I could shift my stage up,down, left and right just by tensioning them. But after going through that process I understand now that im looking at these panels as the fundamental of building and shaping up my PZ. It is with these panels that I was able to build up a nice bubble of PZ which gave a good sense of pressure build up that could be sensed in my ears. Of course initially I revisited my speaker placements to make sure that they are properly aligned and equally spaced out between speakers and me. So once I readjusted my speaker placement which was off from the left side by 2mm. I was ready to start work on my front wall panels. This is where the fun begins as I started listening to Jennifer Warner track #4 on The Well album. I am able to hear the vocals have shifted to the left side off from center plane by 5-6". Now as my mind starts to run around on where to work on first since such imbalance can be corrected in many ways. I decided to look at my SAM wall first to make sure that they are properly aligned as that can severly affect my left right stage balance. Now that was checked and found it was correctly palced. So I moved on to work on my Upper front wall panel, by slightly tensioning my center front left panel I was able to move the image back to the center and also by loosening my right side panel im able to move the image to the center. So there was a balance that I need to get between them. Why a balance is because if I tightened only the left panel to move the image it will cause the tone to shift up which doesn't sound correct. So a slight tension on the left side and on the second left panel and loosening slightly on the right panel got everything balanced up and centered beautifully without affecting the tonal balance. This also got my image to lined up better. Next was to work on my Lower front wall panels this was to get a good stage height which was not much affected in comparison to my previous setting done 3 months ago.  As of now the centered vocals and slightly better imaging is sounding very promising Exclamation

I continued palying track # 4 and revisited other areas of the room to hear my PZ imbalance by comparing to what I got from previous listening session that I did around 2 month ago and I realized the PZ's have moved from its initial spot that i have mapped 2 months ago. Interesting as I didn't expected it to move that much with all my equipments, sitting placement and SAM wall placed at the same exact site. Now did I plot out my initial PZ wrongly or did I misintepret my writings is something that I can't confirm but it seems everything has moved either forward, backwards or sideways by 1-2'. Could this be solely due to adjusting the front wall panels that have caused a shift of my PZ's in the room? Or maybe readjusting my right side speaker by 2mm affected it this much? Well this is something that I need to think about more.

After re-plotting the PZ I moved to my side panels, after tuning them up the instrument seperations and bass was beginning to sound much better. Now this has also changed as I remembered from my previous tuning the side panels affected my imaging and stage width and nothing on the bass  scratch . Wow this is a total different on what I have expereinced previously. Now this seems hard to understand but to me it is beginning to make sense on what Michael has been saying about how the wood will mature and sound different. Could this be correct Michael? Or am I wrong to understand what you were saying? Either way the amount of bass that im getting now is crazy good  Laughing . I can hear more bass but not in an overly empowering manner. This is good, my next move is to work on my ceilings this time it was behaving the same way as it did previously when comparing to front and back part of my ceiling with what I did 6-7 weeks ago.

As of now the sound that im getting is a semi banana soundstage but with more bass output and decent imaging. As for the tone I would place it slightly weigthier with sweeter highs. I would love to get more extensions on the highs but then again im still at my preliminary stage of tuning my room up to its peak performance state. The difference of what im hearing now and what it was previously is quite significant and nothing seems to be behaving the same except for the ceilings which is affecting the stage height and slightly on the 3D presence. This indeed is very exciting to expereince eventhough I can conclude that the placement of all my major structure in my room are at the exact same place as previously except for the right speaker that was brought forward by 2mm.

Im dividing my tuning sessions into 2 parts. The first part is tuning all non mobile and heavy structures (Front and side walls, ceilings, SAM wall) and second part will be variable/flexible tuning aids (PZC-FS, PZC- MEC, RT pillows and resonators). My next tuning session is still within the first part which is the SAM wall by moving them in correlation to my listening spot and back wall. Although it is mobile and I can move it around but due to its large and heavy structure I will keep it under first part of my tuning session as it only moves forward and backward and nothing more.Hopefully I will be able to post it up soon but for now I will give a good 3 days of settling period before I start back.

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:26 am

Hi Tj, great reporting!

In about 3 to 4 months from now you will probably want to do a de-tune and let the music play for about 3 days with everything loose. Then slowly bring things back up to tuned. This will help the room voice evenly as it matures.

Nice to see the room talking to you Very Happy


study

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:42 am

Hi Michael

Thanks and yes I definatley will need to de-tune them again in time as you have mentioned. The possibilities in tuning a tunable room is limitless. My mind is running wild here on the possibilities that I can do and what needs to be done next Laughing .

In time to come I will explore all kind of tuning methods especially nearfield tuning which I can see it happening, with the SAM wall everything and anything is possible Exclamation .

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:54 am

Preliminary Tuning of my SAM wall

After a good 3 days of resting and settling period I decided to start my tuning session once more but before that I started off by doing some preliminary listening sessions to the same album The Well by Jennifer Warner. The resting and settling period did some good to the room! I find that the girth on each instruments and vocals have increased and more pronounced. Bass however remained the same maybe slightly more extension but overall it remained within the same range as previously heard. There is a sense of "filling up the room" when bass or vocals starts to kick in. To me this is a good sign as its telling me more PZ's in my room are getting excited and reacting with the speaker and all tjat goodness is surrounding me. Stage width has grown significantly and I can start to hear musical notes flanking me from the sides and behind of my right shoulder  Exclamation  Speaker is less noticible but center image seems to be recessed to the back in comparison to the sides that im getting which is more forward projecting. Its like a capital "M" where center seems to be recessed and sides are projecting forward. 

So knowing this it is good that I made the move to work on my SAM wall after the front, side and ceiling walls were done. This has brought out more PZ excited around my listening spot which I now can work on them in a much more predictable manner. My first step was to move back my SAM wall to 3' behind me. Why 3' well that's the maximum distance that I can equally space out behind me due to my right side back wall which is angled inwards to the room.

Listening from this position made my sound stage more recessed, thin, hollow and distant sounding. This gave me a back row seat when listening in a concert with less palpability on each notes. As I start moving the SAM wall closer to my sitting position im begining to move into a front row seat. Giving me a cosy somewhat wrap around listening environment. Placing the SAM Wall at 21.2" away from the back of my head gave the best listeninig environment anything closer or further to my head will cause a collapse of that beautiful PZ bubble that is formed. With 21.2" away bass sounds full, rounded and tuneful moving the SAM wall nearer will cause the bass to sound boomy. Image focus and presence is best at this distance too giving me a feel that singer is in the room. Acoustics sound very realistic and there's a sense of vibrations around my nasal and chest region on each note. This is amazing as its giving me more than what I had previously  Laughing

Now listening for some time at this position I decided to give 1 day of settiling in and let my ears rest too. The next day I listened again and this time it happened vocals are now projecting forward but 20% of the vocals is now coming from the back of my head  Shocked  Moving my head seems to remove the sound coming from the back of my head but if I look forward vocals tend to be heard from the back of my head. Its like theres a straight line passing through from the center plane of my speakers to the back of my head. If I lean my head back by 5-6" the vocals will move to the front but as I move my head 3" forward the sound coming from the back of my head now gets enhanced and if I look down the presence of vocals becomes more pronounced at the back of my head. Now im taking this as a good thing because the PZ is now more intense around my sitting position. Tightening the center bolt of my SAM wall is also affecting it, giving a tighter focussed center image but if I tightend it too much the girth of my center image tends to shrink which makes it sounds awkward as its not balanced with the rest of the image im getting from the overall full stage presentation.

As for my sides I find that the right side of my listening spot is being filled up more than the left side. Each time I reverse the polarity from my preamp I find that the right side of my listening spot is filled up past behind me and the left side can only get to about 1' in front of me but never past me. Well maybe I can relate that due to the shape of the back right side wall which is angled inwards towards the room as mentioned previously.

Over the years now I have been relying on SAM wall to get everything locked in. Even before this room when my system was located in my living room, I used a wooden plank placed behind my head. This made up a lot for my center stage and sides too giving a much more focussed and 3D wrap around feel. Now moving up to my current room and with a proper SAM wall I'm just amazed how much more I'm getting from it. I feel a SAM wall is a must in any room, its like a binocular which you can use to zoom in and out your soundstage making it sounding forward or laid back. It can focus your image and bring out more presence and tune your bass. It helps to even out and balance your PZ in a given space. Looking at it and knowing the importance on working your front wall, to me  I find that the SAM wall is equally or maybe more important then the fronts Laughing . I will keep my SAM wall at a distance of 21.2" away from my back head and let the PZ reach a state of equilibrium. Hopefully in a day or two I will have time to revisit and report back my final impression with the SAM wall placement.

If eveything goes well then my next step will be to bring in Michael's PZC FS and MEC's to the equation. As my past expreience has shown that the FS and MEC's will elevate what I have now to another level.


Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:00 pm

Hi Tj

This is very exciting and you are probably thinking "if I can do this with my room what about my system".

Having the Tunable Room will guide you through the rest of your system as you listen and develop cues in the music that become common threads. This is why I have low mass free resonant electronics and speakers. This may be hard to believe for the average system listener but once you go with a low mass "Tunable" system and speakers your control will triple.

What we are doing here is making Audiophile history and every hobbyist's eyes and ears should be focused on your next few steps and then all the way through to the ultimate system.

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:46 pm

What a cool journey you've been on. The ups and downs and learning to listen to old recordings for the first time. I bet that's one heck of an experience.

Gives us guys who don't have the opportunity to set up a dedicated listening room something to dream about. As for me I'm stuck in an office as my home is too small to accommodate a stereo, along with a young kid running around who likes to poke and move things constantly.
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:47 am

Hi Steven

Thanks for chiming in Exclamation , yes its an amzing journey the more you get into the tunes the you more will realize how much wealth of information is there in a room and within the audio chain that needs to be tuned.

With or without a dedicated room Michaels tunes is always there to get your system up to another level of listening pleasure. Please do look into incorporating a SAM wall in your listening space. I believe it will do big justice to your setup Very Happy .

Regards

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:28 am

Hi there Michael and my fellow tuners ,

Been a while since I posted up here. Have been doing some small re-works on my wall panel's. This took up time more than expected but all in all picking up from my last post, things have changed significantly.



As you can see I have moved PZC-FS away from back of my speakers to the SAM wall. Why was this done  Question  Well initially when I started tuning the room up, I placed them behind my speakers to take advantage of the backwaves from my back ported speakers to augment bass from the speakers. It did serve me well but after finding more and more pockets of PZ in the room I managed to bring out more bass which evetually overwhelmed the room  Rolling Eyes . At this stage each time I tried to remove some of the PZC-MEC and Rt-pillows part of those PZ gets sucked out which cause my soundstage to collapse. My aim was to retain soundstage size, wrap around feel and presence but minimise that bass overhang.

This got me thinking outside the box on ways to get it done. Finally with some trial and error I manged to retain 80% of it and yet minimized that bass overhang. Overall im getting good bass details, extensions, clarity and very tuneful. Vocals have slightly less presence than before and much more drier sounding. Imaging is also slightly affected but the attack and details have improved significantly. Listening back and reading from my notes some of what im experiencing now doesn't seem to make sense like vocals less presence but yet more details. Imaging is affected but more attack. Previously I found that all of them work in tandem when certain part of the room has been worked on. But now they seem to be opposing. Why is this well im not sure maybe its not on the acoustical side and more towards the equipments  Question  Maybe Michael could chime in on this  Question

Now from the picture above as you can see I have gone crazy by tuning up my SAM wall and ceiling just above my head. This has always been my best bet to get the centre stage more presence and spacing between each instruments. Just working on these two areas are enough to tottaly transform the whole stage presentation and presence. Im still trying to work on this area but as of now it is so sensitive that moving anything in millimeters can cause a big shift on the centre stage.



Looking at this picture above if you noticed I have already changed my chair  cheers before this I was using my dining chair. The reason is I was trying to work on general placment of my equpiment platforms, speaker and SAM wall. So it was wise for me to use a chair that was light and easy to manuvere around also without giving off too many scratches on my wooden flooring. It's a custom made chair with an arm rest that I got it done from a carpenter with a simple height adjuster mechanism attached under the seat. This has given me more freedom to adjust my sitting height. Many times I noticed that when I move my chair closer to the centre plane of speakers it may sounds nice initually but only to realise its actually sounding worst than before. However when I decrease my sitting height the sound tends to be better. This got me thinking on a chair that has a height adjuster which I can further dial in my listening position. With the chair in surprisingly without doing anything I have gained more wrap around feel. Which is something that tottaly took me off guard. Never knew that a chair with an arm rest could do that  lol! . Placing this chair towards my previous sitting position which is 19.5" away from the SAM wall has given me a slight change on the sound. Maybe it could be due to the height that I have been tuning them previously is slightly different or now with a bigger chair with an arm rest has somewhat changed the way how my PZ are interacting. 

Only time will tell how well will this chair work in my room. I still have some readjustment on the SAM wall and ceiling to do. But for now I have a very comfy chair and its keeping my butt glued to the chair for hours Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:39 pm

Nice chair!

"Why is this well im not sure maybe its not on the acoustical side and more towards the equipments.  Maybe Michael could chime in on this."

Hi Tj, cool pictures looking forward to seeing more. There comes a point in tuning where you can hear the 3 parts Acoustical Mechanical Electrical in total gel mode and then with the slightest change one of them will make itself known more than the others. The more we experience this the easier it is to hear which one is asking for attention in order to get that gel back. Just think how many listeners never get close to the level you are at, or ever even get to hear it in their life time.

I'm going through some of this here at my little place because I'm voicing new potential products, which requires me to move things, and every time I do it's like settled down MG take your time and let the system settle and talk to you. The silver lining to this is finding more adjustments to consider when I want to make changes to the sound. Those moments of the 3 parts of the audio trilogy being slightly out of tune are some of the best times to learn that next synergistic discovery.

This stage of your "Tune" is very exciting for me! I'm enjoying the different configurations your coming up with behind you.

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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:38 am

Good day to my fellow tuners  cheers


Thanks Michael for the reply  Very Happy  Indeed I am listening more now than before. Going back and forth has given me an amazing learning expereince having deeper and clearer understanding on the Audio Trilogy chain. It is making more sense now on where should I head on next once a change has been made.

Now picking up from where I left after bringing in the chair has shown me a different route of direction on where should I work on. After a quick voicing around the room it has given me a new sense of understanding that those PZ indeed have shifted/moved away from me and more towards centre plane of my speakers and equipments. Also with this PZ shift, the left side of my sitting position now has a much more wrap around feel which is more balance with the right side of my stage  Exclamation This is super awsome as certain notes previously heard sounded vague now sounds clearer and detailed. When I turn my head towards towards the sound I still do hear it as in comparison to my previous findings. But the presence and centre stage depth and spacing have suffered making it sounding recessed and less feel to the music.

Bringing in this chair has brought a huge influence to my room. Im tottaly aware and was expecting a change with the chair in. Partly because I know the main areas that affects the sound strongly is around my sitting/listening position. But affecting it by shifting those PZ and vibrations towards my speakers and equipmnets was something that I never expected  Mad . As I played some rock music (Hells Bells by ACDC) and changing it with vocals by Carla Werner, I'm able to listen and feel where those PZ are concentrated most. Not only listening but by touching my wall panels, ceiling and floor have shown how much those vibes have moved away from my previous plots in the room. Very cool indeed  Exclamation Those vibes now have concentrated more towards side walls and centre plane speaker and equipment areas.

Now knowing these findings I have few options on where to work next :
1) readjust my SAM wall
2) readjusting the tension on each bolts on
    wall panels
3) reposition speakers/equipments
4) readjust footers placement under
    equipments
Well to be honest moving those speakers or equipments is something that Im not too keen to do, partly because I have already done it extensively during my initial setup and currently have a very good balance between speaker distance to SAM wall and sitting position. Also partly moving them got me a very sore back too  Laughing . So off I was towards tuning my wall panels. Just by tightening and loosening those bolts have given me an amazing shift on sound stage from a huge and wrap around feel to a slightly smaller stage but with better resolution and amazing clarity but details was still the same as my previous. Bass has been retained and I'm pretty satisfied with it. I managed to retain that wrap around feel by not touching my side wall panels and far left and right ceiling panels which is a big plus point. However centre stage still sounded recessed and overall volume seems to be lesser by 2db from my preamp volume control.

Did I manage to resolve all my PZ shift and vibes problems after readjusting those wall panels  Question  Well no not really those increased vibes felt over my equpiments are still there maybe a tad more now. My next step is too readjust the LTR's under my preamp and cd palyer. I have been using Michaels LTR under my cd player and preamp and it has bested other footers that I have tried from my audiophile friends who were kind enough to loan me theirs (stillpoints,sort kones, harmonix). No matter how I used them at varies place in my system I always resume back to Michaels LTR's as I find them to be very effective easy to use, flexible and they are not prone to tonal shift. Only my amp has shown some serious rejection towards any kind of footers being applied under them.





Now looking at the pic above I have moved those LTR slightly more outward and re-orientated the grains to be in line with my equipments. This gave me better focus and imaging. The feel of vibrations on my cd player and preamp is lesser but its resonance still can be felt however upon listening back the sound stage has grown slightly more on height with better instrument separations but depth and presence are still the same. Another blockage somewhere  Question Maybe top tuning might be my next adventure that i should focus on  Very Happy . Well on the positive side my soundstage width and height is back and better then previously which is tottaly awesome. However presence and centre stage still sounds recessed and softer. I will let it settle in for a few days before making my final judgement and to plan on my next move. Thoughts on my next move are already there but I do not want to make such hasty desicions as hearing fatigue and pre mature settling in can easily steer you to a wrong direction.
 
My aim here is to bring back my centre stage forward towards me and behind me too (as how I have been experiencing this previously) and its presence without affecting the stage height anymore. Also to increase back the volume and loudness level that I feel now has dropped down by 1-2dB based on my preamp volume setting.

My aspect of tuning may differ from others who are reading partly because of those tunable wall and ceiling panels that I have but hopefully understanding the rational of what I am woking on may shed some light towards what Im trying to do here. One thing this journey has thought me is that you can make educated guesses on where to address but always keep an open mind towards other areas too as those PZ pockets are everywhere within or outside of your listening space and they can equally affect your sound stage, tone, imaging, bass, details, extensions etc etc.

Every changes made may or may not be a good thing but it brings out and gives you a better understanding on how these PZ works in a room and how those vibrations are able to shift around which demands you to make changes continiously which is a lesson that only those who "walk the talk" will only know and understand  Laughing .

Regards

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:56 pm

Hi there Michael and my fellow tuners

While working on my room which I have recently found new pockets of PZ, I stumbled upon this interview from PS audio website. Here is the link for everyone to read on it.

https://www.psaudio.com/article/conversing-with-choueiri-part-2-going-to-the-mattresses/

What caught my attention was when
Choueiri talked about a properly recorded stereo.

"Any properly recorded stereo album has ITD and ILD cues embedded in the recording, and it is these cues that present the normal stereo image. If you record using Spaced Omnis, for example, these will capture a strong ITD signal, and will capture, for example, the reverb of the recording environment. ORTF recordings use cardioid mikes, which tend to emphasize the ILD cues, since they are typically too close together for a strong ITD signal. So most acoustically recorded recordings will produce an extraordinarily impressive and satisfying 3D spatial image. So you will hear a very strong 3D image, and not the normal stereo image locked to the speakers. It just won’t necessarily be spatially accurate. [For that you’d need a binaural recording, recorded with a dummy head with your own personal HRTF … and then you would be able to recreate the exact original 3D acoustical image – RM.]"

Would love to get opinions from Michael and others on this particular statement. Would this decipher what  a recording code is from an album Question


Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:43 pm

"Would love to get opinions from Michael and others on this particular statement. Would this decipher what  a recording code is from an album Question ?"

"Any properly recorded stereo album has ITD and ILD cues embedded in the recording, and it is these cues that present the normal stereo image. If you record using Spaced Omnis, for example, these will capture a strong ITD signal, and will capture, for example, the reverb of the recording environment. ORTF recordings use cardioid mikes, which tend to emphasize the ILD cues, since they are typically too close together for a strong ITD signal. So most acoustically recorded recordings will produce an extraordinarily impressive and satisfying 3D spatial image. So you will hear a very strong 3D image, and not the normal stereo image locked to the speakers. It just won’t necessarily be spatially accurate. [For that you’d need a binaural recording, recorded with a dummy head with your own personal HRTF … and then you would be able to recreate the exact original 3D acoustical image – RM.]"



It would be stretching the meanings to tie our use of the term "recorded code" with their use of the term "embedded ITD and ILD cues". It may even be stretching it to use ITD and ILD cues as particular embedded cues within a recording. We can see where they are going with this (especially in context of the rest of the article) but tying this together to come up with the definition of the Recorded Code would only be part of the science of recording (capturing) and playing back (recreating).

an important read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function

A miking/acoustical engineer or tech combined with mixing engineering is a dance with space, electronically, mechanically and acoustically. When we combine microphone patterns (including techniques) with the acoustical conditions, the instruments interfacing and the electronic (physical/mechanical charge) together, that is what makes the unique "Recorded Code". The other side to this is the way our physical body and brain react to the sound. This is why electronic processing has taken so long and is also why there is always the element of adjustment that will always be needed. There are too many unique (varying) particulars involved.

Whenever I read articles like this I wonder how their views will change once they are introduced to Tuning. And I wonder if they will then want to change some of the terminology they use? The amount of control we have with tunable systems and rooms allows us to see inside of the recording with such specificity (and variation) that I think folks trying to get there from the other side of the fence (measurements and formulas) have a ways to go.

"recorded with a dummy head with your own personal HRTF". That's a tall order and even then we would have to be able to adopt human conditioning in real time like our mind does, WOW, very tall order. However a vary fun tall order if there was a modernly equipped variable tuning lab that monitor, and had real time control as our bodies changed with every condition.



references

HRTF

A head-related transfer function (HRTF) is a response that characterizes how an ear receives a sound from a point in space; a pair of HRTFs for two ears can be used to synthesize a binaural sound that seems to come from a particular point in space. It is a transfer function, describing how a sound from a specific point will arrive at the ear (generally at the outer end of the auditory canal).

ORTF

technique named after the Radiodiffusion Télévision Française  where it gained notice.

Combines both the volume difference provided as sound arrives on- and off-axis at two cardioid microphones spread to a 110° angle, as well as the timing difference as sound arrives at the two microphones spaced (side by side) 17 cm apart. (measurements vary)

ILD

Interaural level difference Sound localization is a listener's ability to identify the location or origin of a detected sound in direction and distance. It may also refer to the methods in acoustical engineering to simulate the placement of an auditory cue in a virtual 3D space.

ITD

The interaural time difference (or ITD) when concerning humans or animals, is the difference in arrival time of a sound between two ears. It is important in the localization of sounds, as it provides a cue to the direction or angle of the sound source from the head.

Sound Localization

The sound localization mechanisms of the mammalian auditory system have been extensively studied. The auditory system uses several cues for sound source localization, including time- and level-differences (or intensity-difference) between both ears, spectral information, timing analysis, correlation analysis, and pattern matching.

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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:14 am

Happy weekened to everyone in tuneland

Given the duration of lettng my tuning and system to settle in after my last adjustments with my LTR I have notced that the tune has maintained as what have been described previously  cheers . So for that im very happy as I now can move on to my next step which is trying to search for new PZ pockets in my room. After voicing out the room I have realized that back part of the room seems to sound more muffled, dull, heavy and deep than before. Resonance around my chest region indicates that indeed my PZ's have shifted to the back of my room more than before. Well this is now something new and will start my tuning around this area.

Previously I have moved my cushion stool out of my room (few months ago) and introduced my old hifi rack in. This was because I wanted to get things more organised at the back portion of my room. However by doing this it caused my whole soundstage to collapse and I loss that presence and wrap around feel. Over the years I have realized how important a back portion of the room is to my soundstage. Knowing that the hifi rack was not doing any justice I decided to bring back the cushion stool. By doing so I managed to retain back 70% of what i was expereincing previously.



However as you can see now, I have removed my cushion stool and introduced a small wooden coffee table. Now why that table ? Well it has brought in certain flavour to the sound, making it sounding more intimate with my soundstage and a richer tone. Maybe its the reflective surface or structural shape and height of the table but certainly its bringing in some good vibes to the room. So I have decided to keep that table in and work around it.

Moving the table forward or backwards in cm can cause a profound shift to my stage. It's like I'm able to zoom in the whole stage towards me. This is what I have been experiencing previously when I tune my SAM wall and ceiling but now its the whole soundstage that's affected (front,back width, height). Im getting closer to what im aiming for  Exclamation Moving it towards the wall it will collapse the stage but moving it too outwards it will push the stage way forward. Placing it nearing to 1' away is where the sweet spot is. Wow  Shocked cm's away or more and the changes are significantly heard. As you can see I have taped it as I cant let it shift by any amount. I did try to move it to the left and right side  but that effect affecting the stage all goes away.

I have 2 Schumann freq generator that I purchased sometime back for a very cheap price which I use it occasionally with its independent lps. I decided to use them as my tuning aid too. From the pic above you can see that they are placed in a particular way as moving them around made lot's of difference especially on the volume Im hearing. Currently I have decreased the preamp volume knob by a total of 3dB  Exclamation . Its not surprising to me with the changes Im hearing it is something that I know but never have I expereinced it by this margin. Im getting back what I lost early this year that exact intimate feel. Eventhough bass is sounding deeper but now its slightly boomy. Details can be heard but extensions definately lesser at highs and bass region. On the other hand highs are now sounding sweeter.  Midrange has taken a more forward sounding but not at all "shouty" or in your face type.

I have a stand fan which I used previously before I got my AC working. At times it just get too hot for me to be in the room and since I'm using all tubes it tends to heat up especially during hot days. However with the a.c. in I dont need the fan in but each time I remove it from the room I find that the stage gets affected. Not as profound as the table but there's a drift/shift of the center stage towards left side Which I can't seem to correct it by adjusting the side wall panels or ceiling side  Mad . So for the time being the fan stands as it is till im able to find a proper replacement or a solution.

Once again shown here in my room and previous tuning journey in the living room that tuning around the listening position and at the back region is equally or at times more important than the fronts and corners. For now the whole stage has taken a leap forward nearing me towards the stage with singers and instruments surrounding me at the sides and behind me. Moving my head more forward brings me nearer to the singer which then gets blurry as I move even more forward it is making me feel like im passing though the singer. This effect Im only able to feel at the centre area. As for the sides if I move my head to the left or right the effect heard or felt dissapears easily by more than 3" to the left and 4" to the right. Improvments indeed I have achieved but now tones are more towards darker and heavy side. Also separations heard now is confined more towards centre area, mid left and right area seems to be more congested. Instrument girth has grown bigger and lifelike. Piano notes seems to take up almost the whole width of my stage which is nice but once the drummer starts to kick in then that separation heard cant be defined well.

A good day indeed as I have achieved something that I'm chasing for. I have yet to fine tune the table and also other back areas like my ac fins, back ceiling and the back corners which is another step that affects the stage. As usual letting it settle in for a few days is another important step, so I will give it sometime before I decide on my next step.


Tj
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Sonic Voyager



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:35 am

Greetings tjbhuler cheers

Good to read about all the progress you are making with the Tune.

Here are some quick ideas from Sonic that might add to what you read about ITD and ILD and their relation to the Recorded Code.

The term Recorded Code is something that is coined by Michael Green to describe recordings and it is not a standard term in the audio industry (as far as I have seen).  

Sonic understands the term (Recorded Code) to refer to the “totality of information captured in a recording”.  The use of the word “Code” implies some form of decryption is needed to make sense of the information and this is where the Tune comes in.

This is OK since within our recordings both digital and analog, there is a lot more information and cues that audio systems do not pick up or even obscure.

One form of information that should be highly obvious on playback is the effect of different microphone set ups have on the placement of images within the soundfield.  The various methods like Spaced-Omnis, Blumlein and ORTF plus all the hybrids that engineers come up with to record orchestras and ensembles produce different layouts of the your soundstage, different instrument focus and placement as well as how hall ambience is rendered.  All this information is in the recordings you have (the Recorded Code) and you can retrieve it.

Sonic has one recording of a church organ (French baroque) where the mics are placed high up and on my system I can hear that we are very high up and not at floor level. A slightly scary feeling when I first heard it  Smile

Let’s look too at some of the recordings Mr Green is now experimenting with – the Natural Dreams series.  I heard a bit of them from Youtube and what I heard are recordings of outdoor sounds captured by a mic/mics, then overlaid with “dreamy music” for relaxation (I hope I am talking about the same thing, Michael).

http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t441-a-soundstage-template

These are artificial new agey recordings that do not pretend to be a musical performance in the sense we apply. But a Tuned system should tell you if the outdoor sounds are compressed, how were the musical instruments overlaid in the studio, if any phase effects are used to create "relaxing" sounds, how far right and left the ambient field goes in your system and so on.

So reproducing the Recorded Code can be regarded as extracting all the information in a recording that is there.  Then the Tune can also be used to manipulate the information (like an EQ) to make the sound more fun to you as a listener.

What do you think, TJ? Hope to hear your views!

I also wanted to ask you what are the "platforms/bases" you use for your Audio Research amp and the gear on the floor?  I mean the box structure that has what looks like a lock on thee front of it.

Sonic


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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:32 pm

Hi there Sonic,

Sorry for the delayed reply have been busy over the past few weeks Very Happy . First of all thank you for your reply and your description makes sense to me a lot, I do get that feel in my system. Sometimes it like a sense of being listening in a very different environment a sense of not being in that same particular room. And yes very true with the tune its really mind blowing being able to have the ability to manipulate a particular part of the recording to suit your taste and able to place them around your stage. This is my main driving force in this hobby its tottaly amazing Exclamation

Sonic said :

I also wanted to ask you what are the "platforms/bases" you use for your Audio Research amp and the gear on the floor?  I mean the box structure that has what looks like a lock on thee front of it.

Tj said :

Those boxes with a front bolt are my tunable boxes designed by Michael himself. Which gives me the ability to tune on the vibrations indiviually. Im able to tightened and loosened them to get better focus and depth to my soundstage. My equipments are all tubes and they are sensitive with vibrations which I realised when I had them over at my living room. So looking at improving them I used a simple design by Michael himself which gives me the ability to tension each box and manage the vibrations better. If needed I have them bolted down at the sides too which i can further tune the sides by loosening them Laughing

Materials used for the top layer are Merbau and box is a slightly softer type knows as camphour wood.

As for the black looking box on the floor well thats an EMR absorber which im using it to control the humidity in my room. There are few articles that talks about dusty and hot humid areas producing large quantity of positive ions which further attracts dust and moisture. So I am using a passive device from Alan Maher designs to control that in my room. The air in my room is much more cleaner and cooler which is awesome as my wooden panels are protected. I havent checked yet recently on my room humidity but the last i did it was around 45-50%. I do have a dehumidifier too which I use them at the back part of my room periodically Very Happy .

Tj


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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:13 pm

Hello there my fellow tunees

Now I have been awaiting for something very special from Michael patiently for the past few weeks and finally it has arrived safely! Michaels Bare White speaker cables Ty4 and Ty3. I have been talking to Michael and have also described my findings on previous versions of BE Ty3 which i have been using for well over 3 years now. The BE Ty3 along with its jumpers has replaced my high end cables Transparent Audio. When I initially purchased my equipments i had few options of choosing some nice cables and finally after doing some auditions here and there I finally settled in for the Transparent cables.  The cable did a fine job well untill Michael's BE Ty3 came in and blew rhem off the windows  Laughing .

There was no comparison after 2 week of listening it was night and day difference for me between Transparent cables and BE ty3. Made me wonder how did I settle for them initially  scratch  . Overall the BE Ty3 gave me a huge soundstage with better seperations and more airier highs. The TA sounded muffled but had good bass. Which was slightly lacking on the BE Ty3 but after 12 days of running in all that changed completely. The BE ty3 sounded full, better bass. The sound opened up so much more and effortless. Tuning them by spacing the cables individually also gave me a ability to further fine tune them. Now the idea of tunable setup also extends to Michaels cables by spacing them and untwisting the cables which affects the inductance and capacitance. This was something that made me understand more about how a cable reacts and how to use them to my advantage in my system.

So once Michael announced his BE White series I jumped in without hesitations. This time I opted for ty4 instead of Ty 3 but Michael was kind enough to offer me his Ty 3 too. Now immidiately once i got them hooked up to my system after a preliminary listen to my BE Ty 3 i was shocked at how big my soundstage became. It was like a sudden expansion of soundstage occured 360°. There was an ebb flow like music that swept my face which was something that I didnt expect. Knowing my soundstage which has already passed my side walls and behind me i was not expecting this sudden gush of flow towards me.



Highs off the bat sounded crisp but slightly harsh but it was never irritating to listen to. Midrange was something that i was soo happy to listen. It just sounded gorgeous not too forward or shouty nor honky. This was my expereince using BE ty 3 initially when I got them which took around 10 days for them to be tamed less shouty and i had to untwist them in order for them too settle in and get them sounding lovely. The Whites just got everything right on the first go itself. Now on the bass department, previously my bass sounded deep but had a slightly loosened feel on the lower octaves. It was bouncy and tuneful but I always yearned for more. Well i was always blaming this on my bookshelf speaker status. But either way it had enough of bottom end to give a nice fullness to each note that I was not too concerned about it. Once the Whites were in the bass just took another confusing turn for me. Initially it tightened up significantly in fact it sounded very bouncy and tuneful but that low end impact seemed to have disappeared. I know it will come back as Michael has told me out will take time but wow what a difference.

Now this was my initial findings on day 1 of install, eversince then I have been running them in on a daily basis and currently have them in for almost 50 hours. The bass has grown, giving me a much deeper tuneful feel and that energy is so effortless. It's hard for me to describe it but all I know is the bass quality has changed for the better. Highs and midrange just sounds lovely big bold yet not shouty and less harsher than before however one particular change that has made it all worth it is that slam and impact on all notes. Its like there's more energy more drive to each musical notes. As some say it as PRAT where it gives a much more catchy and lively feel with an impact especially at the end of each instruments notes.

This is really some good cables you have there Michael beats a hell lot of other cables I have heard at 10x the price. I will continue running them in and give my impression on the Whites.

Tj
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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:43 am


Greetings tjbhuler!

Thanks for replying – I been busy too so did not get back quickly either.

So those “equipment stands” were made in Malaysia to Michael’s specifications/design using local woods and his tuning bolts installed. Great idea.

I assume these boxes are hollow and open at the bottom, that there are spikes or cones screwed in underneath? They do not sit directly on the floor, yes?

What you are doing makes sense – use local woods and build things to Michael’s design and just import and install parts like cones and bolts. Must save a lot of cost. Just like you, I have this issue in Singapore where the shipping cost for something out of the US to here costs more than the item itself.

Sonic



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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:58 pm

Hi Sonic,

I was trying to avoid using spikes for the platforms as I did not want to "hurt" those wooden floorings. So I opted for Herbies fat pad and Michael's LTR blocks if needed. So far the Herbies are doing a good job giving a balanced sound not robbing off any dynamics nor degrading the soundsrage.

As for the box yes it is hollow, I have fill them in with some small stones granules but at bare minimal. So far I havent hears any differences with and without them maybe I will need to add more but for now i wont be doing any heavy lifting it is not healthy for my back lol!

Tj
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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 pm

Hi Michael and my fellow tuners



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tjbhuler



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PostSubject: Re: My Tunable Room (tjbhuler)   Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 pm

Hi Michael and my fellow tuners

Following on my report with Michaels latest speaker cables the "Whites" Ty4, I have them currently running in for almost 80 hours. The sound has opened up once more giving an effortless feel of the music flowing all around the room. A huge soundstage pushing all the instruments more into the room giving me a much more enveloped sounding experience. The sense of that enveloped feel has been there in my room but now I feel that it has been pushed more into the room especially around the speaker to my listening space giving me a much more involving listening expereince. With this I can say that my sound stage has matured and a more fill in space kind of feel and listening experience. Hope that make sense  Embarassed .

Highs has sweetened up nicely with an airy feel, that crispness sound has softened up and harshness is tottaly gone. Midrange is what I was very cautious off, as previous BE Ty3 took almost 12 days to run in to sound beautiful without that shouty and midrange glare but here the Whites was not all as such. They sounded really good without that glare and was very balanced not empowering the highs. As for the bass looking back with the previous BE Ty3 it sounded initially slightly bloated with more volume and it took around 60 hours for them to tightened up and sound tuneful. However with the Whites Ty4 it is quite the opposite. Initially when I hooked them up it sounded thinner, you can hear the bass but it sounded less impactful. So initially I was quite confused as I was expecting more bass but here it was the other way round. After 50 hours or so only then the bass started to grow in size and loudness. Bass on the whites have quite an opposite effect as in comparison to BE Ty3. Now 80 hours in I feel that the bass has grown sounding more powerful and deep yet not empowering the rest of the frequecy range. That impact and fullness is more now and it is sounding more detailed and tuneful this is very nice indeed however wish I could get more volume up on the bass side. Michael did tell me it will come and will take time so the journey is still on.

Now what caught me by surprise is that impact and slam that im getting from the Whites it is just amazing. It has more of that snap and a lively feel to it. The sense of effortless music flowing is so much more apparent now. This is something im finding hard to describe but all in all i find that my system feels more alive.

It is quite an expereince following through this current running in period for the Whites.  Im not sure how much more will the Whites bring out but as of now there's freshness.

Tj
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