StevenZ - Starting Fresh / Help Needed

Hey guys, new member here.  I recently stumbled upon MGA while snooping around on another forum for speaker suggestions.  Thus I've reached out and contacted Michael to start the process of rebuilding a system that would revolve around his Rev 6 speakers (and subwoofer?).  I've been on the Hi-Fi merry go round for quite a long time now and I've spent/lost thousands of dollars chasing my tail. It's time to rebuild after my most recent purge and I think I may have landed in the right place.

So from what I gather, pricing be damned it seems these two pieces are the cornerstone of some truly incredible sounding stereos.  Magnavox MDV2300 & Sherbourn RX-4105.  What I'm nervous about though is that the cost of these two items combined doesn't even equal the cost of my current interconnect.  I'm scratching my head as to how these two items could possibly be better than what I've had and heard.  It would be hard for me to take seriously this gear so I was hoping any of you guys who might be using this combo could chime in.  OR anyone who has any other suggestions for equipment that might pair well with Michael's current line of speakers.

On that note, I do see a few older models that MGA used to sell and I wonder how those might compare to what is currently available.  My main concern is actually the transition from a standard format tweeter to a slightly larger format paper cone tweeter.  I wonder how high this actually extends and how clear it is within the range it's used.

For now, the room I'm in isn't important since it's an office, I'm just trying to build up my puzzle pieces for when I do get around to having another dedicated room so I'm purely in information gathering mode.  Any help or advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
StevenZ

Hi Steven

Welcome to TuneLand

Hopefully some of the Tunees will come out and visit with you.

For now, I was thinking that I could address the one question you asked.

"My main concern is actually the transition from a standard format tweeter to a slightly larger format paper cone tweeter.  I wonder how high this actually extends and how clear it is within the range it's used."

mg

There are 4 main tweeters that I currently use in my designing. All of them are MG Mods like the original tweeters. The tweeter your looking at with used models are either Vifa or ScanSpeak based. The Vifa was used in the Revs and the Scans in the Chameleons. With both of these tweeters there were slight tweaks that needed to be done, but overall they sounded great.

the 4 tweeters being used now



a) the original, based on the Vifa D-27 with optional rear cap or MGA treatment

b) the MGA Low Mass, using the same silk dome as the original but with the Low Mass magnet, no screw assembly, and incorporating the MGA Low Tone plate

c) the Dayton Audio's small Ribbon

d) the MGA Paper Tweeter (also available with soft dome dust cover)

I also have on hand other tweeters that go all the way up to the thousands of dollars for those wanting me to do the big buck custom builds.

All the tweeters I use go well above 20k, especially after mounted to the newer guitar baffle boards that I use on all Rev and Mod models starting 6 years ago. I've worked with instrument baffle boards for many years but was not able to implement the design because I didn't have the right wood workers. As of this last couple of years the front baffle board technology finally came together, and with Dave (bare foot daddy) the front baffles are to die for.

difference between the old Rev and new Rev

If a listener finds an original Rev or Chameleon that I personally voiced they have a treasure, obviously, because of the age and attention (if they have been cared for). I know which of the eras sound the best and or different. At one time I even use to grade the speakers and sign the grade on the inside. However finding out how they sound now as compare to the new Rev would have to be done on a pair by pair bases.

The new Rev certainly has some advantages right out of the gate. The Rev no longer uses the aluminum tuning bar, but now an individually tuned hard Poplar or Mable bar. The new design has, as I said, a real guitar baffle board for the front baffle. The old use to be done with double sided veneer (outside and inside), the new Rev uses hard wood for the front baffle and our own pressboard (soft pulp) for the top, bottom, sides and back. This allows for far more detailed voicing. I can virtually revoice the Rev any time in the future, instead of being some what limited by the inside veneer. Over all the new cabinet is simply far superior to any I made in the past. I don't want to be one sided on this though because there are some old Rev speakers out there that by now, 20 or so years later, that have come of their own and probably have tone to spare. I only get praise emails from Rev owners of old so it's hard to tell exactly what condition they are in. 3 years ago I would have said grab the old models if you can find them. Now, it's the latest ones all the way, their more refine.

Welcome to TuneLand Steven

I would get the Rev6 or Rev6 signature. Mr. Green's latest work is the best thing going in the hobby.

I wasn't aware there was a Rev 6 Signature model as all I see on the MGA website is the Rev 6 Bookshelf. Can you tell me what the difference is?

Hi Steven

The Rev Series has been an evolution process for a long time. Owners over the years have had me retune their speakers to fit their personal growth in their own listening. Like you can see in my above posting I keep certain variations on hand so I can be less model changing and more model progression. The Rev speakers out of all my designs resurfaces the most. Bringing back the line into a production again lets me and the owner be more creative and personal about our sound. There are a few choices folks can make now with the newer line that will let the listener tune more effectively, and like I said more personal. For my thinking, personal is the next great step in the hobby. Because of that the Rev line is even closer to a real musical instrument over before.

ok the Rev Signature

The difference between the Rev and Rev Signature is my voicing of the drivers, inner cabinet and the cable. There are other tricks but starting with these 3 takes the Rev to a more MG version.

the signature drivers


the signature drivers front and back

First thing to look at is the surround of the woofer. The front side nor the back side has typical dampening. Instead of using dampening, I apply our curing treatment. What this does is changes the chemistry between the rubber, metal and glue of the frame, where surround meets basket frame. This relaxes the resonant frequency response (I do this on all the Rev drivers BTW).

Now flip the drivers over and you will see that the backs are actually metal and wood frames. The Magnets are treated with a thin coat, mellowing the magnetic field sonic response just a hair (taking off the edge). I've created a slight dielectric/magnetic mingle that is a tad less aggressive, to accomplish this.

Leaving out the proprietary mixer the shell you see is part our treatment, part wood and part glue. The wood is made of the fine sawdust from our actual hard & soft pulp production blended with other wood dust, depending on the sound I want. Making this is very time consuming and if you mess up the mixture you might as well start again cause it will never come out right once you get started and stop. I do this all by hand so I can feel when things are right. Two woofers and two tweeters takes about 6hrs of massaging the mixture so I make sure I have something to keep me occupied cause both hands are out of commission. After this, the baking, but that's my secret.

Internal and external voicing? My secret, but let me say I go from 100 grit to 3000 with my voicing now.

Another signature move is the Bare Essence Type2 I use from the binding posts to the woofer. Not just Type2, but hand voiced Type2. That's a whole other art form. Folks would be surprised to find out what I put into that little cable jump.

So, the Revolution 6 Signature is not only a pretty special approach but also one that a listener and myself can stay in contact over as the listener develops their own particular hearing taste, as well as the instrument's voicing long after I'm gone. I should also note that a Rev can be turned into a Rev Signature down the road if someone wishes.

Welcome to TuneLand Steven! Enjoy the forum

Well, it's been a long time in the works but I've finally placed an order for a pair of Rev 6 Signatures with Michael yesterday. Excited for these to arrive is the understatement of the year.

Oh I think you will like them Steven  

What finish did you choose?

Hi StevenZ

You are going to love the Signatures After about a month mine took on a tone that I never experienced in this hobby before. The Rev6-S have helped me make other decisions in our system and we now own a complete MGA setup from start to finish. Couldn't be happier

Drewster wrote:

Oh I think you will like them Steven  

What finish did you choose?

Thanks! Actually I told Michael to send me whatever color he wanted. So I guess it will be a surprise unless he comments on here or posts some pics of them, which would be cool if he wants to.

rotelguy wrote:

Hi StevenZ

You are going to love the Signatures After about a month mine took on a tone that I never experienced in this hobby before. The Rev6-S have helped me make other decisions in our system and we now own a complete MGA setup from start to finish. Couldn't be happier

Well I'm a little concerned about break in as I listen very low all day long here at the office. I only push my speakers when I'm alone and nobody else is working, which is typically for 15 minutes or so in the morning or when I skip lunch. So it may take a bit longer than a month for me to get the drivers fully worked in.

I have a question though, you have MGA from start to finish. What does that mean? Source to speakers? If so what do you use?

Steven I suggest that for break in, if you can, when you leave the office at the end of the day leave the speakers running and turn up the volume to whatever you think would be permissible in your environment. Close the door if necessary. Leave them playing all weekend as well. They need less break in than most speakers, but the drivers still need some play time to loosen up.  

How many hours do you think they will need? We have an office cat so I can't crank it up and leave for extended periods.

I might have a solution but I want Michael to verify that this won't be detrimental to the speakers themselves.  We have an old studio that was used by an artist on the property. It's now used for storage but is NOT climate controlled anymore. It has a lot of sunlight and being here in TX right now our weather goes from the 50s to 80s daily. I could easily hook the speakers up in there and let them run in pretty much indefinitely.

But my concern is the temperature and humidity swings. How this may affect the cabinets themselves and the tone that develops. Let me know what you guys think.

Just play Stray Cats, Cat Stevens, Cat Power, Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle....  

Drewster wrote:

Just play Stray Cats, Cat Stevens, Cat Power, Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle....  

I like the way you think. Haha!

Hi Steven

I know that high end audio suggests "hours of playing" for equipment and speakers or tweaks, but in reality that's really only a shot in the dark when it comes to parts and pieces maturing. The truth of the matter is, everything that makes or passes signal breaks in according to it's environment and handling. If it helps, think of the Rev6 as an acoustical guitar or viola or tom tom drum. The Rev6 and these instruments have the same basic body construction. The difference is, because the Rev has drivers attached to them there is a medium tone foam in the back corners of the inside (the foam is not rubber based). The foam burns the extra cabinet pressure. There's also a Tuning Bar that connects the two sides, so you can voice them.

I would not put these in the damp storage. Instead use them in your office and report the sound to us as they go through their first month or so and we (who own the Rev6) can tell you about where you are in your breaking in. These are low mass drivers with metal/redwood baskets. The cabinets and drivers will have a richer tone than other speakers, probably right off the bat after the first week or so.

As Drewster said just try to play them as much as you can till you start to get to that golden warm tone. You'll know cause there will be a zero fatiguing factor when everything begins to gel.

Thanks for the reply and insight, Michael.

Hi Steven

Resently I moved to a very small place here in Vegas. I've almost got my listening chops down and then will be playing the speakers that I believe will be coming to you. While I'm playing them I will be posting pictures, so you'll get a sneak peek

I'm also breaking in some Bare Essence Type4 so I'm going to give it a couple more days then it's all you. Will be fun to listen to this pair again. I'm guessing they be shipping out the end of next week

Hello Steven

Michael has taken my wife and I through the tune step by step. We now have two systems that are MGA from beginning to end. MG is quite the mentor and has the patience of Job but after being with him for a while you can tell he is sizing you up, getting to know your ears and taste. When we saw Michael working on the Rev Combo we knew it was for us and said here's our checkbook hook us up. MG thrives when you give him carte blanche. He read us like a book and the systems are awesome. If you look at MG's Rev Combo that is exactly what we have. Magnavox CDP on Blocks on Platform. Rotel on Blocks on Platform on Rails (just got the rails and they're great). Rev6 on Rev Stands on Platform. YUNG 100 on Blocks on Platform. Picasso and Bare Essence on Cable Grounds. MGA Subwoofer on Blocks on Platform. RoomTune Pillows and two PZC-FS. A custom mini SAM and several of his toys. I'm convinced the only step higher than this would be The Tunable Room. Hope you have a great time on TuneLand.

End of next week sounds good to me. Really looking forward to those sneak peaks.

Rotel, sounds like you are fully decked out. Unfortunately for my situation none of that is possible. My small office is all I've got for a listening room with the speakers being placed beside my monitor. I don't have the room for any other components. Couple that with me being on an extremely tight budget and I'm a bit locked into what I've got.

Wife and I just found our we have a second kid on the way so things have been a bit crazy. There is an urgency for me to get the stereo I want as quickly as possible before child #2 comes.

Gone are the days when I had a big budget for speakers and amps and even my dedicated stereo room. My journey in audio has been crazy and I hope that when the speakers arrive I can just kick back and relax for a while. It's definitely time, and something I need is to be content in audio again.

Michael Green wrote:

Hi Steven

Resently I moved to a very small place here in Vegas. I've almost got my listening chops down and then will be playing the speakers that I believe will be coming to you. While I'm playing them I will be posting pictures, so you'll get a sneak peek

I'm also breaking in some Bare Essence Type4 so I'm going to give it a couple more days then it's all you. Will be fun to listen to this pair again. I'm guessing they be shipping out the end of next week

Any sneak peeks yet? The suspense is killin' me!

Hi Steven

I'll try to get pictures today

Having too much fun listening:!:






Congrats on your pregnancy

Excuse my poor photography skills.

Wow!!!!!

I'm listening to "The Dance" on them. Soundstage is warm and big.



Thanks for letting me get a quick listen before they get sent out, I'm enjoying!