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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:09 pm

Jakob Dylan is someone I have had my ear on for a while as I'm sure millions of others have.



Can you hear it? Listen closely.



For me, listening to the later Bob I'm starting to see the father/son come out.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:30 pm

Time to throw another classic on.





need the funk

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:46 pm

Here's a recording done in "91" for Sony at Ocean Way Recording with engineer Rik Pekkonen.



I use this sometimes to reference my system. If you have it, you'll know why.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:07 am

Harold mentioned Joss Stone so I've been looking for one of her recordings around here. "where did I put it"  Rolling Eyes 

yes you can picture the stacks and stacks all over the place

finally


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:40 am


Hi Michael

Your comment on the Pride of Lions recording create a bit of a puzzlement for Sonic. You said this was recorded at Ocean Way, a famous studio yes. But I also recall the sound of the giant Ocean Way monitors. Sonic had the opportunity to hear the biggest of the lot, each channel about 10 ft wide by 8 ft high (I cannot remember exactly the size but this is close).

Very heavy cabinets, horn loaded, acoustically dead, multi-way (4 way I think), electronic crossover, equalization, amps that output in kWs.

In the demo I heard, we had three channels covering the front wall all the way across and ceiling to floor. In terms of design, these speakers are about as far in concept from the Tune and your speakers as it is possible to get.

The sound that day was LOUD and LOUDER, but not giving the things I could tick off that represent the Tunes.

True, great albums have come from Ocean Way. Think Johnny Cash's "Unchained". But in what way is this record (Pride of Lions) made on these monsters a Reference for the Tune?

How can an engineer produce a 3D recording when the Ocean Way speakers are some of the last monitors to give all round 3D...or is the surround effect in the recordings that Tunees love a random thing that the engineers cannot hear, let alone control on their studio monitors?

What is your take on the sound of these huge monitors in the Ocean Way mixing rooms?

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:31 pm

Hi Sonic

This pic may not be time correct, but I wanted to show the control room.



Control room playback and in home playback are worlds apart. Control room playback and mastering playback are usually worlds apart as well. The dynamic range between the mics pickup and what we hear at home is again usually huge (scaled back).

Control rooms are taylored for the engineers using them, and many times compromises are made because of these big consoles between them and the speakers and all the equipment in the room. This is why you see many of these studios using horns. They do this to try to get away from the room interaction as much as they can. The system is loud and pushing air directly at the listener. Where you and I are stimulating the room these designs are trying to over power it. Keep in mind though that what those speakers are playing is not what is going on the recording. Those speakers and playback have sonic and flavoring problems that all products do and if you sat in this room it would not sound anything like your stereo.

It's a little scary isn't it? I have tried to talk to the engineers about bringing their world closer to ours as listeners but that's hitting the head against the ego wall. Still with this huge separation of sound, this shows how much the microphone does pick up, and how far we can go as an industry and hobby.

I myself truly hate the sound of these monitors when demo-ed as playback for home listening, but if I was in that control room with that board sitting in front of me the story might be different.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:38 pm

I remember sitting out listening to one of my outdoor setups in Ohio years ago and one of the recordings I would put on was



It was perfect to have one or two torches going on that huge deck with Chameleons spread 15 or so feet apart, listening to this soundstage float around the woods. DM has got their soundstage act together and is another one to add to my "bass" list. I have had the float with this recording a few times and when it happens watch out. The stage will run all over the room.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:19 am


Hi Michael

Good explanation into the difference between the requirements of the studio and domestic environment. The Ocean Way that Sonic heard looked like the ones in your pix. They created a very LOUD wall of sound with transients (like drum rim shots) that were like a slap to the side of the skull. There was tremendous detail projected forcefully at the listener but not what I would use to listen to a string quartet late at night. The smaller Ocean Ways were actually thrilling to listen to rock and jazz on.

Another question: you must have listened to early Bee Gees -- their Polydor albums from 1966 to 1971: First, Horizontal, Idea, Odessa, Cucumber Castle, Two Years On and Trafalgar. Sonic has collected most of these on original vinyl and some on CD.

For those who think of the Bee Gees as shrill falsettos and disco, these albums will give you a different angle into the talent of the three Gibb brothers. Good musicianship too!

Michael, what do you think of the bass on these records. The bass was forward but some lower notes project out and fill the room. Not boomy but very big. The effect is not a distortion, it is consonant with the music and emphasizes parts of the songs so it appears to be an intended effect. You’ll hear this effect a lot on Odessa and Two Years. You’re are probably familiar with the recordings and I recall you said you worked with the Gibbs (two having sadly passed from this life, RIP Maurice and Robin).

Sonic

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:30 pm

Hi Sonic

I don't know when you picked up your LP's or CD's, but back in the late 60's early 70's a lot of the groups used string reverb and tape echoplex. When some of these recordings were then made into copying there was a little EQing done to mello the high parts to the echo and this made the bass roll not off but out toward the listener. On the studio monitors it sounded great so many of the engineers left it in instead of thining it out. I have a feeling that when the BeeGee's got to the mastering part they didn't separate the effect from the other tracks, meaning when we got the masters years later they already had the reverb added in and it couldn't be separated. Turns out that it is a pretty cool effect, if the listener isn't hunting for that perfectly defined bass.

Many people don't know or don't recall, but the BeeGee's at one time were one step away from being beatle status. I think if Andy would have joined them, in the late 70's they would have been much bigger still, but Andy was my age and felt like there was a generation gap. Still the brothers did great and I like their later stuff too. One Night Only is fantastic!

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:28 am

So let's do that "if you were on an island thing". I would hope that they let me choose 500 CD's at least and it would still be really hard, but to choose 100 would be almost impossible. One of those recordings though would be



There's no way for me to describe this jazzy Latin collection of songs without you hearing it in a big soundstage setting. But then once you do I won't need to say anything cause this will be at the top of your list as well.

I only have one bad thing to say about this recording "it comes to an end". This is probably my favorite Sting picture painting CD's. In may ways, this is when Sting was born. It is this recording that allows me to love all of Stings work.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:22 am


Yes Michael, that sounds like the bass effect Sonic is referring to. I remember reading that Maurice was a good engineer and very up to date with recording technology from the Bee Gees First in 1966 all the way to the close of his days. Incredibly talented, he went through bouts of alcoholism and overcame that demon in the end.

My Bee Gees LPs cutting dates are within a year of their original release dates so they are all 1971 and earlier. These LPs are prized items in Sonic's collection.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:14 pm

Hi Sonic

Sounds like you have a good batch, gems. Wish I had my tapes from those days, but true to my nature I was in the moment. I think when your that young things fly by before you realize what was going on or even the significance. It was almost a blur once I got on the bus for my first tour, cause it was all about learning songs and non-stop performances. Very fast pace living. You have to be a special type of person to do what these guys did. A major learning curve for this young man, that's for sure.

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:28 pm

Last night I spent some time with more classic rock.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:51 pm

What is it about csny that freezes you in your tracks Very Happy

After the system has settled I did a "last" listen, and ended up sitting start to finish again. The textures and layering of the 4 pull you into this sometimes peaceful and other times informative state. It's not just their voices but the way they use their instruments to surround or move along with their words, like using the instruments as grammar. Here's a thought, now let us take you there, type of thing. I know all music is meant to do this but csny has me believing them, and they do this in a way that covers a wide range of topics and tempos. Not a boring song on this Cd.

BTW, if your going to listen to "Demons & Wizards" you might want to follow it up with "Magician's Birthday".


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:02 am

In the 60's came a sound that was rich and full of soft whispers. Different from the rock being born and the jazz swinging. Even different from folk. It was a youthful sound that carried the message as if you were sitting in the room talking over topics of the times. I was a kid looking at these teens and twenties with their turtle necks and smart haircuts, college types is the way I saw them. Not hippies, absolutely not rednecks, but still in their own world of hip. A new breed of young sophisticates. Kids who made a society, of not tough guys, but also not whimps. Thinkers they were and as a kid I was pretty impressed by this cause these kids seemed like they were going to figure things out and not bully their way through life.

I think I was 10 or so and my family had a party and the neighborhood was invited. The adults had their place and the teens theirs, along with the young adults having yet their own spot that had a separate record player from the one upstairs. I waited around till they stopped spinning through the music and moved outside or something, anyway I was alone. I went through the LP's till I came to the one they played through but were talking too much so I couldn't get a good listen. It had a song on it that was on the radio and I put it on. The first song was great, but I was under the music spell or something cause I kept playing one side then flip did the second side then flip and I must have listened 3 times through the whole thing before busted by the older kids.



I didn't own this record till years later, hearing "bridge", then almost running to my record store to get it. I'm sure I sat there like that little kid and listened to it at least 3 times through again. After maybe the 3,000th time I still have the same smile on my face.

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:11 pm

You know how you hear stuff on the radio and kinda pass by it? I did this a lot with the disco stuff. I guess I saw it as adults wanting to be teens again, getting into line dancing, one step away from getting old and not knowing what to do about it. Then enters Earth Wind & Fire. Now if you haven't gone down this path yet play it safe and pick up.



let it pass through once or twice then go listen

These guys know (((soundstaging))) and gave me a whole new outlook on their music.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:00 pm

Yes, I did listen to Eric Carmen and Tangerine Dream, and yes I enjoyed them, but then while sitting down to tell you about them I happened to put on



and, well......it's hard to talk about anything else. At least for the moment.

The low spark of the high heeled boys, is right up there with Ziggy Stardust and Selling England by the pound. It is a rock & roll must have and a collection is not complete without playing this at least once a year.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:21 am

Them blocks have got some magic goin on Exclamation

I've been playing with some different flavors on Traffic and wow this is fun Exclamation

hope you guys are having a good time Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:36 pm

A fun time with Carol


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:14 pm

In the mood for raw? Dig out your Kevn Kinney "Down Out Law".



don't forget the beginning of track 7

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:33 pm

Kevn for me is not a repeat recording, it's more like a shot in the arm. Now that I'm alert I might surprise you with this twist.

this is a pretty cool recording


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:46 am

The early 70's gave us some great sounds.



a review
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At the time these two albums were released, there was little interest in them. Neither country fans nor rock fans appreciated Gram's attempts to create a hybrid country-rock music back then. Yet, within a few short years, Gram became a revered figure - a status he still retains. The extent of his influence is hard to assess, but he made an important contribution via one album with the Byrds (Sweethearts of the rodeo), two albums with the Flying Burrito brothers (Gilded palace of sin, Burrito deluxe) and the two solo albums that make up this set. All five albums are better appreciated now than they were when first released. It helps that these albums provided the breakthrough for Emmylou Harris, who lends vocal support on several songs. Emmylou helped the legacy of Gram by covering several of his songs including Ooh Las Vegas, Hickory wind and She (all featured here) as well as some of his earlier songs from his time with the Flying Burrito brothers.
The other thing that strikes me, listening to these albums now, is that they sound much nearer to traditional country than rock music. This may in part be due to the changes in country music over the thirty years since. Several instruments used on these albums would find a hard time getting on a contemporary country album - in particular, steel guitars are a rarity these days where once they were standard. Of course, if you compare this to a truly traditional country album, you'll hear the difference easily enough - but then listen to a rock album or a contemporary country album and you'll hear a much bigger difference.
The songs here are a mix of originals and covers. Hickory wind is both - it was written by Gram but first recorded for the Byrds album, Sweethearts of the rodeo, so the version here is a cover. Cash on the barrelhead is a cover of a Louvin Brothers song. This very song was later covered by Dolly Parton and appeared on her classic album, Grass is blue, while Emmylou was clearly impressed - she later covered several Louvin songs. Other covers include I can't dance (Tom T Hall), Streets of Baltimore (Tompall and the Glaser brothers), That's all it took (George Jones), Love hurts (originally recorded by the Everly brothers, it provided Jim Capaldi with a British top five hit in 1975) and Cry one more time (J Geils band). The final track, In my hour of darkness, features Linda Ronstadt as well as Emmylou, so this is the first time they recorded together.
So, what is Gram's legacy, apart from his own recordings? He helped Emmylou into the big time and also introduced her to Linda. He introduced Emmylou to the music of the Louvin Brothers. He was an influence on the Eagles, Dwight Yoakam and what is now known as the alt-country movement. All of these are important, but some might have happened anyway. Some accord Gram a God-like status, while others dismiss him as a no-hit irrelevance. The truth lies somewhere in between. In any case, the two albums paired on this CD are worth listening to in their own right, regardless of their historical significance."
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Let me add, another thing about this time and this type of music, I like when a singer doesn't necessarily add the overly country twang in his or hers voice. It's more of an old country meets folk meets rock. Some great rock bands around this time that honestly could have been called country.

Plus, this version of "Love Hurts" is WOW

thanks andy

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:01 am

Back to this very fun time of recordings for me.



"Portrait in Jazz was the first of only four (official) albums made by what Evans fans know as "the first trio" - the one with Scott La Faro and Paul Motian - which introduced a new approach to the music of a jazz piano trio. Whereas the conventional trio tended to feature the pianist as a 'star soloist' with bass and percussion essentially as 'accompanists' with a fixed and limited role, Evans, La Faro and drummer Paul Motian aimed to develop more of a sense of equal and spontaneous interplay. Scott La Faro was the right man in the right place: his virtuoso technique and strong musical personality enabled him to play the more active, assertive (but compatible) role Evans wanted for the group. By the time this trio played its famous sessions at The Village Vanguard (Live at the Village Vanguard and Waltz for Debby) this 'collective improvisation' was well developed. Portrait in Jazz being the first album by the trio, the roles within the group are sometimes still fairly conventional, with bass and drums functioning as a `rhythm section' with the pianist spotlighted as `leader'. However, there's a strong sense of discovery and enthusiasm which, I think, gives the music a greater freshness and vitality than the subsequent albums by this trio and it's those qualities, along with the sensitive, alert musicianship of the trio which makes this one of the most absorbing and enjoyable of Evans's many albums.

Part of its appeal is also the excellent choice of material, but much of the interest lies in what Evans in particular does with it. Often this is mainly a matter of the unusual chord voicings and adjustments of rhythm and phrasing he gives to a familiar tune, which open up wider harmonic and rhythmic perspectives for improvising. You hear this from the opening bars of the first number, "Come Rain or Come Shine" and it's evident also in the slower ballads, a haunting version of "Spring is Here" and a probing reading of "When I fall in Love". Notice for example how, on the latter very familiar tune, Evans's slightly 'off-centre' harmonies create a different kind of emotional tone from the suave, sentimental one which singers usually give it. Among the other high spots are the famous up-tempo version of "Autumn Leaves", with its infectious swing and lively interplay between piano and bass, similarly propulsive readings of "What is this Thing Called Love" and "Some Day My Prince Will Come" and a marvellous "Blue in Green" on which the rapport between Evans and his partners is especially close.

This is a classic piano jazz album, and one that never seems to lose its freshness. "

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:16 am

This is a beautiful slice of peace



If your wanting to give your ears a break and let your soul take over, this is a good place to start. I don't know how many of you have your systems close to your sleeping area, but this certainly is meant for pleasant dreams.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:16 pm

Did I ever give my ears a treat Very Happy


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