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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:43 pm

Hi Guys

I had to take a shot of this and share.



There's just something so fundamentally cool with this picture knowing what I am playing and how busy I am right now. A moment I will remember for a long time!

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:32 pm

Today I am reduced to a babbling flowing pile of emotion. I can hardly believe I get to listen to this



As Andy (Drewster) has been saying "the Rev6 does something with piano...."

I am so with Drewster on that one today. Finally getting around to my Liszt on the Rev6 and Bare Essence I am nothing but emotion, thanking God every few minutes that I get a chance to hear this as if this was the last moment I would ever have in life. It's that good Exclamation The connection of all the pieces of this piano is so absolute that you can hear the inter dependence of the instrument as a whole. The space specific realism tied together with the weight has me transcending to a place that has nothing to do with a system. The music, even at not the highest volume, is getting directly into my chest chair and body. I can actually feel when I move my arm slightly and quickly place it back into the same position so as to not unbalance the feel of the performance. The pressure in the room has somehow magically found it's perfect mate in this recording. Nothing anywhere seems like a stereo system. I turn my head to the right and I am greeted with perfect balance, same as to the left. The keys roll off into the room as if the piano and space is one, no separation, but all evenly a part of each, One. My heart is pounding... this is real size and real space, one continuous connected performance.

There's a soft gentleness to this girthy thick recording that hasn't a hint of frequency shift anywhere. Sigh (in a good way) this is Franz Liszt.

Sometimes in todays busy life we get a chance to really live. I get that chance reading when you, my friends, hit those moments. It's like rushing to these pages to express your excitement. If possible I'm sure you would transport all of us there to breathe in the moment with you. Music, think about it with me, music. We are living in a time where we are able to reach back into the performances of those moving their fingers over the keyboards, pouring out their souls on the page of their era. Creating notes that can then be played throughout infinity, through the minds and times of others.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:01 am

The end of this year is almost here and as such we've made some decisions.

Over the past 3 years I have been bringing in High End gear to tune and listening at other's places as well as getting stuff from the local high end used shops. It's been a concentrated effort and my findings were not complete until just a short time ago. The list of products I brought in and played in my 6 rooms is long. Not only the products I still have but also things that came and went more quickly. I really do hate putting down products, but if I am going to be true to myself and you there is simply a line that I should not cross. Others can, but my job is to tune.

During this chapter I have found some real gems and have been able to add them to my approved list. 3 of these components are Audolici, and I now will include them in as one of my points of reference. As for these other products, what I have found is people have gone straight for my products over the other gear (with one exception). The exception was before I voiced my product so that is understandable.

One of the things that brings me to this point is a pair of speakers that I really wanted to get behind and push. They retail for $18,000.00 and as much as I wanted them to give the magic I wanted, and as much better they are than their competition I can't do it. The latest Tonian has my respect and I will always be glad I had the chance to own them, but compared to the Rev6 Signature and Sub combo I can't justify keeping them. The Rev6 soundstage is bigger and the flexibility of the Six made it impossible for the Tonian to out perform. There is a sound in the Tonian I really like but I run into that "can't play all my recordings" and for me that's a deal breaker. I can't handle sitting there frustrated with a recording. The other deal breaker was when I made my paper cone tweeter sound like a ribbon with a fairly simple tweak. I know I can tweak and tweak on the Tonian and at the end of the day could have something really special. I also know for the right audiophile this can be a dream come true. I'm sadly not that guy.

Well these were the ones that made it and came close to making it. So then came the choice of, do we want me trying to make High End work or continue with the path we have found to be successful since Dave came on board which allows me to finish my work on the Revs. High End Audio, I feel I gave you another fair shake, but it's simply not worth the time money and space.

So

As of the end of January I am discontinuing the mixing of high end audio and Tuning. From then on, products will have to be of tuning merit or a special Tunee's sound that I can help with. My main focus needs to be on what is real and that doesn't leave much room for product sidetracks. I'm very happy that I had the chance to redo my testing, and that I put my toes back in the pond, but there's a higher calling for my ears.

what was it MG?

I can hear it just sitting here thinking about it. High End Audio has a fatigue factor built into the sound, that some times you can ignore it and other times it jumps out and grabs your earlobes. I'm sorry we can pretend like it's not there, but this only fools us for a short time and we will fall back into that sound every time. I can start writing my list of what things are causing the problem with high end components, but honestly we all know what they are. The answer to the problem of fatiguing comes down to one factor, ease. The things that I have been bothered by these last 3 or so years is I introduced stress again and it threw the systems out of ease. When I did my proven components with my speakers something extraordinary takes place. I can hear the signal making it's way through the audio chain relaxed. This last little while with the Bare Essence White and the simple system brought me to the place of tears several times. I do this same thing with the Tonian speakers and I became fatigued. The sound was nice, but I had no desire to drift off into soundstage land. Same thing happened with the other high end components (exception Audolici A25M and Preamps).

also

Over the last 3 years I found myself getting soft on high end audio componentry, and you know what, that's wrong. The curve of acceptability is something I'm suppose to be tough on. Blending these components into the mix is perfectly fine, if I give the real references their due. But when I fail to reference things like the Sherwood 4105 and all the approved components here it's a waste of my time and only confuses the many reading who end up questioning about this privately. As much as I am glad I was open minded, must go back to what is real. Doesn't have to be real for anyone else out there who doesn't want to go this route or who are on a specific sound venture. But for those wanting my advice, me going off on a sidetrack without making it clear why, makes it rough for the guy who is ready to move away from high end, getting closer to the music. It's important for me to say this, because you guys reading me and posting with me don't realize how many have made the conversion to their tunable system using these recommended systems. For example there have been more than 50 guys this year who have converted, that haven't posted here. These are guys tossing their complicated systems for very simple ones. Most of them picking up Maggie players and Sherwood's or some of the other simple electronics.

I need to get back to being firm about these wonderful systems. If not it is easy for the forum to get caught in an audiophile cycle that favors high end audio too much.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:15 pm

If you've read the above post, I'm sure you can see my wheels turning. Almost immediately after moving into this location I started to realize that for me to give High End Audio a fair shake more and more components needed to be explored, or do they? At both locations, over the last few years something was sticking out to me as I setup every system. The "Tuning Correct" components allowed me to go places within the soundstage naturally, as if they wanted to go there. The opposite happened with the components that were not "Tune Friendly". In my thinking I flashed back to all the times I have done this before only to come to the conclusion that there really was a right and a wrong, if real size/real space was the goal. Not that everyone looks for this as the end game but, for me, if I am not able to do the end game I by forfeit limit the hobby to only going so far and not able to choose all the variables.

The deeper I got into High End the more the missing parts of the soundstage stuck out. Maybe this wouldn't have been such a big deal if I didn't have my "Tuning Correct" systems setup at the same time, maybe I wouldn't have noticed the missing keys on the piano. Who am I kidding, fact is, when the tunable systems got close to the float things would happen that high end (in their current build) would never be able to touch. Out of all the (higher mass) high end components only one proved to be acceptable for me. Only one (the mg version) was able to be flexible enough to fit into my reference list. That's one out of at least 50 recently, and one out of hundreds (maybe thousands) going back.

It's important that you guys know that what you see me post here on TuneLand is only a fraction of what I am actually doing. In my crazy mind there are 3 modes, what sound I am getting, what sound you are getting, and what sound I am uncovering and then creating around. My goal is not about creating my sound, my goal is about creating every sound. With this in mind over my most recent blending of High End Audio I have been once again reminded that we are only fooling ourselves if we think High End Audio high mass componentry is on the right track. I've been asking myself (and others have been asking me) how many high end audio components will it take me tearing completely apart to make, once again, my proclamation that high end audio is flawed? Can one man turn the page of the high end audio mistake, should one man even try? Meaning, is high end audio so far out of whack that I need to show & tell all over again just to come to the same conclusion? I would say yes, if it wasn't for the internet. This last time around, readers can see that I went deep into high end and the conclusion has been documented (as much as it could be without embarrassing particular component brands and their designers).

The other consideration is one of practicality. How much money will it take to sell high end audio? Yes you heard me correctly "how much money will it take?"

It was a grand time, when high end audio was based on local dealers, but now that I jumped back in I can see the mistake that would have been. I don't want to hurt audio dealers so I won't go too deep into this subject, but let me say that even over the last 5 years there has been a drastic reduction of dependable dealerships. I believe a lot of this is due to the age of the audio gurus that pushed this hobby in the past and somewhat held the hobby accountable (I'm not necessarily referring to reviewers). Who are the gurus, of today? I have heard many stories, but the truth is they lack authenticity. Outside of what we are doing in the tune, I don't see any "real" discovery shops among the ranks. High end audio seems to be riding on what past generations discovered, and now are just copying, missing the understanding of the audio code and audio chain. I warned some of the key players back in the 90's that this would happen if they didn't sharpen their skills and start building their products with physics in mind. I told them there were some missing links that needed to be addressed and if the industry didn't stop and do so the high end would ultimately fail.

do you remember?

Do you remember the 40foot systems I created back in my Nashville days? You might not because I was dealing with the Eighth Nerve fiasco, my PA Lawyer ripping off my patent pendings and other brick walls Rolling Eyes (oh the things you go through when you just want to be a listening designer) Laughing

As a reference: in Nashville I had my referencing studio, MG Audio (the store) , the workshop and the penthouse at the Cumberland.



You can imagine the $$$bucks$$$ going out, but there was also the bucks coming in because of the recording studios I was designing. There were the tunable rooms at the Studio on music row, 2 in the workshop, none in the store but 2 in the penthouse. There was also a mini studio in the Cumberland up in my place.

During my 4+ years there I was thinking High End Audio was finally going to make the connection, so did Jim Bookhard and so did those that were ready to jump on board when the big push happened. However High End Audio was once again terrified that their money flow would take a huge hit as the industry moved from fixed to tuning. To be perfectly honest the powers at be wanted nothing to due with their comfort zone being disrupted. Keeping the revolving door of new designs going was priority, no matter how they sounded. Ok, up to date?

What I was doing at this time was showing that the fields being created by the audio chain's parts didn't function correctly crammed together into the small chassis designs. The high end designers were frantically making shields, dampening, chassis, over built parts and heavy cables, all squeezing the sound, not setting it free. This is why those of you who are taking apart your components are hearing it open up with each screw removed, and even more when the parts are spread apart in relation to the fields in any particular room in the world, and the conditions there.

"open it up, then tune it in"

This last couple of years have been a good refresher course for me and I'm glad I have been able to share this with you guys once more, but, going deeper into High End Audio is not what I am suppose to be doing. Sound doesn't get better the more you spend. I'm not saying there are not good sounding products that cost the big bucks. Nope, what I am saying is me going down the road of a loosing proposition only takes away from successful listening and then sharing the method of how to get there. What I should be doing is pushing the components that are ahead of the tuning curve and watch listeners get to that place of conversion. As I have talked over with Harold and my other advisors, going the High End Audio direction more than internet sales, is not the best way to make a change. It will only be a frustrating money pit.

What we Tunees have is revolutionary and not some words used for marketing. If listeners choose to get involved with the Tune I need to be ready to meet them and work with them through their conversion. If this last year of being here at this location would have proved other wise (selling high end audio) maybe the mixing of high end and Tuning could have shared some sort of balance. However when you look at the sales we have created the last year, it's been something like Tuning 95 and High End Audio 5 (that's being generous to HEA).

So without further ado let me share with you the decision.


TuneLand on the Las Vegas Strip

I will get you better pictures, but yesterday I got the keys on the new location, on the Strip. We knew that my space 3 years ago was short term and the flood speeded this process up. I did think however that the place hosting the Tunable Room would be more of a long term spot. I really thought this was it, but being on the other side of town from the workshop and so far north was causing problems for my local listening buddies as well as folks coming in to visit. Even though the past (flooded) place was not the best for curb appeal, being close to the convention center and strip was a bigger plus than I thought. Not going to lie, I love the place here on Padre Bay. I will be writing about it for a long time to come, and came very close to going ahead and staying here. At the same time, with what we were seeing with the High End Audio market and sound it was giving us a lot of pause to keep going in that direction. In other words, the places I visited to listen to the expensive systems near here sounded horrible and the hosts didn't know very much about playback more than they spent a lot of money.

the story continues

When we started talking about moving I looked high and low for a place that would work for me. With us now having Dave and the shop, I no longer needed my place as a shop. Dave has a great spot setup for me to sit, spin and sand to my hearts content. Still with the obsessive nature I have to voice while hanging out with my systems, a place with carpet was making me squirm a little. Size was also bugging me. Since the Rev's are voiced and in production, along with the new PZC and Platforms and other goodies what I really need over this next year is a place to dig in and document as well as listen. That means a writing/sleeping/listening room and a listening room. Does it make me sad loosing the extra rooms? Yes! But, I know after this last few years what I need to do as a priority, focus Focus FOCUS study If I had funds to throw at the expensive HEA brands as a result of how much money we made the last years, that would be one thing. Actually, maybe I still would have not felt I was spending my time wisely. Yep, in the back and forth with those helping me decide, focusing won. And, I want to point out that now that Tj has his Tunable Room and Bill will be getting his back up, I don't feel as naked, like I am the only one. Third person promoting is a wonderful thing.

While shopping for a place there were a few areas of interest to me, but they weren't offering the right benefits. It was a little frustrating because everything I wanted was over my price range enough to not justify moving away from the Padre Bay location. In the one neighborhood (right behind the Stratosphere) for some reason I was pulled into a Vibe that was appealing to me. Sahara Ave and the Vegas Strip has become a destination crossroads here in town. Some of the ultra high buck theme resort Hotels & Casinos have moved in where the CES was once hosted at the old Sahara Casino, where I got my start as a trade show exhibitor.

Now, I know I'm boring you but let me finish my story Wink


you can see my suite here right behind the store front

The above picture shows the Allure and the Stratosphere before the Lucky Dragon Casino was built.

here is a picture since the Lucky Dragon was built, so you can see where I am


I must have driven by my place 20 times thinking "man there's the place I need to be" but never saw a rental sign and frankly I thought it would be much more expensive than Padre Bay. When I saw the ad that there was a place available I couldn't stumble over myself fast enough to get my deposit in. When I was in the office I kept wondering to myself which of the spaces was #205 because I failed to look while walking to the office. When it was time, as we were walking, he kept getting closer and closer to the exact unit I had stared at "if only". Yep, it was the upstairs end unit right on the road and looking directly at the strip. When I walked inside the tone was excellent, mainly due to the floor which has a slight give to it (no doubt wood and aged). On top of the flooring is Tile. Oh this is going to be fun Exclamation

Why is it that I love so much to move in, conquer the space, and then have this hunger for the next space? I think, if I had a family it would be different (maybe) but I'm glad I have this unusual pattern. It can be very trying at times but when I think about my purpose as a designer that is maybe the only one in our hobby looking at everything as a whole, it stops feeling so strange. Well it might even feel more at home to me and in balance with my life always traveling. Whatever the case, I'm happy I headed back toward High End Audio again but didn't get sucked into that portal. High End Audio is very Alluring (no pun) but as much as it pulls on me, there's an equal force telling me how wrong it is and how much it needs to change directions back toward what it once was and then the added tuning to make this a hobby of variables. Not confusion (which is what the Stereophile-ish audiophile has been force fed), but a hobby that deserves to play all music and greet every taste.

Does this mean I get even more tough on High End Audio? I don't know. What I do know is I must be a voice that tells it like it is and if that means getting my hands dirty in High End once in a while, well than so be it. I feel however my return to reality speaks bigger than my visit to the land of compromise. This is truly a hobby of tools and sidetracks can blind us if we let the shiny objects influence our eyes over the harmony wanting to favor our ears.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:41 am

So, I've been getting asked what system am I going to setup in the new space. Mostly the electronics. Hmmmm...we have a dilemma scratch

I'm going to take a guess Idea


It for sure will be CDs with the Maggie Player. I'm also thinking I will start with the AP-01, Luxman M-113, Yung 100 and of course the Revs and Sub combo. I'm thinking maybe Type3 White and Type2 Picasso. Of course no longer having these wonderful concert hall shaped rooms Sad  I will be using more tunes. These concert rooms have been heaven to listen in. Even in my writing room the soundstage is huge. I'm listening to Ozzy on my Tuner "Crazy Train" and it's like wearing headphones. The Rev Signatures, even up on the walls give me a wrap around the head stage. Very impressive speakers Exclamation

I am pretty excited though about hearing the old floor joists at TuneLand on the Strip.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:05 pm

It's Christmas Night and I need to chill a little. Thanks Dr. Lou



A perfect choice for me tonight.

My thoughts are with B&E tonight. Going to be a very busy week this week for you, and I pray that you will have time to get some rest.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:09 am

Hi TuneLand

Happy New Year to you cheers cheers cheers cheers

As you know I'm packing so will try to get up on TuneLand as much as I can, but might be a little slow, thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:48 am

Yesterday, I began my SAM Wall at the Strip Location. It's different from the SAM Wall at the Padre Bay Location in that this SAM Wall is made from Brazilian Pine Panels. Of course I'm just throwing things together at this point. The first thing that must be done is to build shelving because of the smaller space needing to host the parts and pieces from the 6 listening rooms I had. I can hardly imagine that I'm moving to be honest, but the sudden water burst last year caused a quicky move to this wonderful Padre Bay space that I wish I could pick up and move either closer to the Shop or to the Strip. I appreciate you guys bearing with me through my gypsy-isms. Truth be told (like I said earlier) as much as these moves take out of me, the excitement of experiencing a different acoustical space is my own personal very fun ultimate head trip. I'm already finding hidden notes and harmonics as I walk through the strip location.

When I set my first 24x36 panel on edge at the center of the front area I heard the room divide itself. My thought was "Oh now I'm going to like this" . I now have 5 panels up and without a system in the room I just sat there for a few minutes (more like an hour) and sang. I am going to have girth plus in this room. The back side of the SAM will have to host equipment and so I've disassembled the rack setup that you saw at Padre Bay and reassembled it behind and attached to the new wall. I sat down again and smiled "first hurdle over come". The combo tuned like a gem, good start!

I'm now sitting in the old writing room with my last system setup Sad listening to one of my last recordings here "dark side of the moon". Man part of my gut is and will lay on the floor here forever as this has become one of my all time favorite places to listen. The soundstages I have created here have been truly enjoyable, and the last few months I have soaked them in sometimes up to 15-20 hour sessions. I am beyond thankful and appreciative of my time here, but now hearing the SAM at the Strip location, my mind shifts into automatic touring mode looking for those gems that await me. It's amazing how much I use those concert touring instincts after all these years. I keep thinking that this (2018) is going to be a year of writing, but who knows. First things first, but always exciting study

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:34 pm

UNBELIEVABLE Very Happy Exclamation

What I went through this last month I would not wish on any listener Shocked

I'm back, kind of Laughing

The WiFi is slow but we will figure that out.

Thank You to everyone who helped out on the move. I'm still dealing with the aftermath, but I'm excited to be sleeping in my bed after sleeping on the floor for the last couple of weeks Rolling Eyes . Going from 6 listening rooms down to 1 is one thing in thought but a completely different story in actuality. However there are some super happy old and new neighbors and movers cause they have all been given free stereo systems affraid Laughing . I will no doubt have friends for life.

Yep, hopefully my prototype piles of speakers will be happy in their new homes, cause this camper ran out of room about half way through the move. I still have stacks of prototypes up to my ceilings that need to disappear.

and now a little Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:21 pm

Glad you were able to get set up with WiFi!


jocolor jocolor

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:25 am

Hello TuneLand

I'm finding placements for things here at TuneLand on the Strip, but wanted to try to get back in the swing of things asap, yes that means as soon as Possible, so be patient with me. I'm trying to do this with WiFi which is more If-y than I am use to but we'll see how it goes for a while and then I can break down and get regular internet if need be.

I know there are many who have been waiting for my return, both directly and on TuneLand, so please resend me anything I have misplaced on my email account mgtune@yahoo.com or Michael@michaelgreenaudio.com

Also keep in mind anytime I am busy you can make contact with Coop or even Drewster (Andrew).

Moving in of course I needed to decide on which system I was going to start with in my front space and writing room. I must say only having 2 systems is very strange for me and feels weird. However I'm already thinking about converting my writing room system into systemS (with an S).



If you've been to Vegas, Florida, California or any place here in the US who used the typical 2 level motel suites you will recognize this layout. You usually see an efficiency (typical motel room) or what is called a Jr suite (which has a mini kitchen and divided space) or you will find this space (size of a small one bedroom apt approx 550-600sq ft).

The move was a painful experience, but stepping outside of the door onto the second floor end unit walk way/balcony makes much of the cramped feeling go away. I also enjoy the full length blinds, that when open makes the place feel very hip and much bigger. Plus, kinda hard to describe the feeling I get being on the strip.


above, a look at the windows

The next post I'll show you some of the cool things I'm doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:40 am

Well, maybe not the next post, but I'll get around to it Rolling Eyes

I'm still sleep deprived after the move, but am slowly getting back into the groove. One thing that I am enjoying is getting out to the lumber yards and seeing all the new fresh wood coming into town for the building season. This means wonderful selections for me to go through. You might be thinking "mg didn't you just downsize", well, right I did. At the same time as me getting smaller, bigger projects are being talked about, and some are about to get into motion Very Happy

Interestingly, the timing of me moving away from typical High End Audio again I'm finding listeners coming to me to get with the Method of Tuning and my previous selection of low mass products, plus a few cherry picked Audolici and some others being added to the list. I'm now convinced that me going through my fairly massive exploration of the High End again has possibly been helping folks out there gain confidence to make the move from typical system choosing to the more approved tuning products we have been discussing here and you have been discussing with me in private. My hope is some of these folks will start posting, but if not I will try to share some of the enthusiasm being talked about out there in Listening-ville.

here's one email I got just a day or two ago
____________________________________________________________________________

"Hello Michael Green, I bought a Funai DP 100 FX4 DVD based on your impressions about it and I was amazed. It's the best cd player I've ever heard. I would like suggestions for minor improvements, as I am a layman on the electronics side. What I have done so far has been to remove the top cover and loosen the screws of the circuit base by partially uncoupling the circuit from the base. If possible give me detailed language, because I am Brazilian and my English is not the best. I would like to congratulate you because this was the best purchase I ever made in audio and if I can get a little improvement in your sound I will be very grateful. About the power cable replacement I wanted more details, I change the cable by which cable?

A big hug and thank you for meeting you."
_____________________________________________________________________________

This to me is exactly why I need to get more posting done on TuneLand, my website and Facebook of course. The more listeners out there see what is actually happening in our hobby, it will turn into a true Audiophile movement that has been over due for many years. I believe we can get to the place of real progression and over turn the upper echelons $$$$ of a hierarchical system that has become false, or at the very least, misleading. You my friends are showing the world that the premise of component over method is false. The timing for this to finally take place could not be better. And, I'm seeing that my last go around with High End Audio has maybe helped in some small way to make the move to the Method more realistic and far more reasonable.

I ask myself the question, should I be listing the components that I had brought in house over the past couple of years? I hate to put brands on the spot, but is this what it will take to bring down the walls of deception. Maybe! But I still need to be careful to not exclude those who have listening conditions that are different or even limited compared to the conditions I have used to do my testing. And than again, we can't underestimate the personal taste factor. To this point I want to tell you one thing that I did do a lot of, and even posted some of this. Behind the scenes these last few years I have done a great deal of modifying. The reason for this was to find that greatest point of tuning conditioning. Now you've heard me talk about this often, but what you haven't necessarily heard from me is me using my methods and testing on some very high end units, so that I can compare circuit against circuit. How do I share these findings has to be done with careful consideration as to not hurt, especially current (in business) companies. I'm sure some of you have learned to read between my lines but still I have had to be mindful. Saying this once more though, you have no idea how close I have gotten to your high end audio product backyards.

As a cautionary theme I have tried to say things without coming out and blasting away, but you need to know I'm trying to say things as directly as I can without making wars out there. And you have been apart of this through exploring your taste and setups as well, but for some who read this it's possible you have been listening to your music in your own private prison, not getting anywhere near where you could have, or should I say, hoped.

let me give you a simple example (again this doesn't necessarily apply to you specifically)

Lets take the Maggie CDP-MGA Yung-Rev Sub setup. Using my tuning tools you have no idea the flexibility this setup provides for the guy who wants to go CD one source system setup, no idea! If pleasant listening is your goal, this setup is something beyond what you have experienced before. Those of you who are new Rev Combo owners know what I'm talking about. But let me throw this curveball at you. Lets say there's no way in Heck your going to break down and buy my latest Rev6 or 60 design (foolish you lol), but you happen to have a pair of JBL monitors (I happen to be listening to this right now so this is my example) the Maggie-Yung-Rev Sub combo and some internal voicing can do miracles.


I know this was kind of a crewed example, but what I'm saying is, there's really no reason for you to not have your sound and be able to make all your music sound like you want. And this past few years (especially this last one) I worked at finding those key components of the past mostly and with the knowhow of tuning have been able to create a sound that was very pleasing and most importantly not stuck in a one sound, limited, dead end sound.

So here's my caution, be careful when you are buying especially newer high end audio components. Just cause something is the latest and the more expensive doesn't mean it will deliver. Yep, it will give you that brand new sound, like hopping into a brand new car, but be careful. Most of the time what sounds new and fresh ends up becoming not so great after a few listens that go past casual.

That problem really stuck out to me during this last go around with high end. Honestly most of it sounded really crappy and was easily beat up by the inexpensive older Audiophile or even MidFi units when Tuned vs Tuned. In my view there are some newer designs that don't even come close to their ancestors. I hate saying this but if you plan on buying into high end today consider a system redesign or spend some time looking into simplicity over price. Even going straight up head to head comparisons with components sitting on one of my platforms the results I got and get are fairly dramatic and telling.

also

On this perhaps newer adventure for you be very careful of another issue, Match Masses!

Let me go back to the Maggie CDPs again for example. Over this last little while as many folks have been making the conversion over to a potential switch to the Maggies they would give me their impressions. Most of these first or second impression were "the Maggie smokes" their previous front ends, but some would give me a not so good review. The first thing I asked these folks was "did you set the Magnavox CDP on the same shelf, platform, or stand as your comparative component?" Well sure enough the mass ratio between the old and new would be miles off. If you are getting into Tuning don't forget to pay attention to "the mess of mass", cause if you don't take mass seriously it's pretty much game over. I would say 95% of the people who go from their DIY platforms to mine are in total shock after they switch them out. The 5% usually with a little fine tuning or advice end up at the same conclusion. If not that's cool too, but ask why this is the case. One of the first things I find out is the DIYer never learned how to take the wood down to that absolute dryness that I do. There are many other issues, but if you don't know how to choose the wood and then take it all the way down to it's absolute lowest state of tone you are never going to be able to bring back up the harmonics. Learning the art of curing from a timing point of view is more than a science. It's something I have always found to be something that is felt, sensed, and heard all. To really get to those tones, you have to be a student of voicing and have that keen sense of each piece of wood.

When I go wood picking and find the sound I want, instinctively in my mind I know how I'm going to voice that piece. That's why some folks almost refuse to have their pieces made by anyone else than me personally. Now that's not always possible but there's that second tier of folks that have me pick out that finished product for them, and then the choosing goes on from there. Hopefully when people get their stuff from me they find it blows away what they have made or had made for them, but you'd be surprised how many people have me then make several interchangeable voiced Tuning boards, or differently voiced platforms for example so they can change them out like speakers or amps or cable.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:27 am

Sonic sent me an email

"Your post on your thread puzzles me -- I don't understand the "curveball".  You said about the people who would not buy your Rev tunable speakers then you talk about JBLs....I don't get the point/punchline."

mg

Sorry Sonic! The last post was one of those where I had a thought I wanted to share in real time but while writing I got hit with a few other things I needed to do that I had to switch gears in my thinking, and then come back to my posting. I'm not sure the original meaning will ever be truly articulated the same Rolling Eyes but here is what I was driving at.

All of the products that I have been exploring during my prototyping season of coming up with my new designing had a purpose. Stock they all gave a particular "fixed" generic sound. What I did was attempt to make these components (I include speakers and other products when I say this) flexible enough to do what ever I wanted.

I'll try to break this down better, here is what I have been working on



To see some of the different setup variations you can go here.

http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t419-rev-combo-hookup-subwoofers

The theme of this setup goes back to the early days of the SW10 subwoofer, Paradigm crossover, Marantz MA 700 and Parasound X88 CDP. It was a system I was designing where I could pick it up and drop it anywhere in the world with consistent results. Moving to the desert took this design development a few steps forward, by introducing me to a lower point of mass. I had many of the parts and pieces together for a method over the years "method of tuning" (a variable approach to audiophile listening) but when I got to the place where I was able to take system tuning to that next step (thanks to the desert) my range of harmonic control became far closer to being balance and universal.

the punch line is this

A system method that is able to do virtually every part of the audiophile listening spectrum. Not saying that you can meet every taste all the time every time, but a system that will allow the listener to go anywhere they want by tuning and inserting the desired sound into the audio code. If you look back to the beginning of TuneLand and even further (back to the 80's) you can see the progression. While other designers were making "components" I was building a "method". Once you apply the method you can change the listening paradigm of the hobby and music industry.

Here's what I'm saying Sonic "the next step in extreme audiophile listening is not componentry, it's a 'method' of tuning".

The JBL's I showed you above, sound nothing like the stock "fixed signature" sound of JBL. In fact if you sat here blindfold you would never in a million years (well maybe not that extreme) guess these were JBL. What made this happen? What I have been doing is applying some of my designing into other companies' products. Why is this important? Well lets stay with the L46 JBL for this example. Stock, the JBL sound signature invaded every system and room I put them in. You could walk through any of these rooms and say "that's a JBL playing", some setups sounded good, some ok, and some intolerable. After I voiced the same speakers and put them into my Combo arrangement the L46s sounded amazingly good in all the same rooms and music choices. Did they sound better than the new Rev speakers? No, but it was amazing how much they did change once they became more of a chameleon able to adapt. Now lets go a step further. The B&W's I brought in. Building the new voiced cabinet 'mg style' and minimalizing the crossover and the B&W 220's became totally different creatures. Same happened with almost every other speaker brand except for the ones that were too locked into their sound. These harder to deal with speakers also had mammoth crossover networks. Out of all this usually the simplest designing sounded better than the same company's more complicated designs.

Now, I hardly ever do this but lets drive this point home. A local high end audiophile here in Vegas invited me to come listen and I did. He owned the very top of the line B** (I'm not going to give the model). We later met up again, me with my MG-ed DM220's. I thought he was going to cry when I setup my system in his secondary room. I was hoping to get a thread or even post out of him on TuneLand, but he declined. The local used shop that I get some of my stuff from also asked me not to talk about my testing and results in his store in front of potential clients. No problem, I dig it. I've been learning my way around the audiophile community here Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:04 am

Now, lets move into some of these systems that I'm doing based on the MG Combo.


this is a MGA/Maggie CDP, MGA/Yung100, Parasound HCA-500 amp

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:04 pm

Ok, so now tonight I'm going to the simple Parasound setup before I move forward. There's a reason but lets do the hookup first.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:53 pm

Lets change this to the Rotel RX850. When I went for the Parasound I could see that the cover was on and it was in a stack of other components (in other words mg was being lazy). The Rotel said "why don't you play me instead".

MG, why did you go from the CDP, Crossover, Pre then Amp to CDP, Crossover and Amp (skipping the Pre)?

Well, as I was listening earlier I was noticing some familiar symptoms of transfer squeeze. My first guess was I had too many parts on one Platform. Yep, having the CDP, Crossover and Pre on the same Platform was causing a series of weird shifts in the stage. Switching to two pieces CDP & Crossover on one Platform and the Rotel having it's own Platform, I heard the stage straiten itself out. Hmmm this will be interesting for future reviewing. Does this mean I will not be able to review 3 component setups (+crossover)? We will see. In the meantime though my simple CDP, Crossover, Amp combos will need to be my point of referencing.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:36 pm

Now some of you might think going from the previous setup Audolici, Luxman to a simple Rotel receiver would be a let down of sorts, and you would be dead right in a certain set of conditions, but in this room and configuration the RX850 challenged the AP-01/113 right off the bat. The very first thing that jumped out at me was left to right balance. The RX850 gave a better sense of balance and I had no desire whatsoever to slightly move my head right or left. Keep in mind I have not gotten to a place of RT treatment yet except for one PZC and of course my SAM wall behind me. A SAM wall behind me? I apologize, one PZCFS and SAM wall is quite enough to make me very excited!

The other thing about the Rotel based power, that I wasn't expecting, was something magically solid state. Now I have to say I was surprised at my reaction and even "welcoming home" feeling I got with the change. It was actually a comfort that came over me. Here's what I mean. In tuning, it's a lot easier to make a solid state amp sound closer to tubes than it does making a tube sound like solid state. Within minutes of slight tuning on the Rotel that upper midrange cluster (a typical solid state signature) was gone. I felt right at home using my Tuning Blocks and could easily identify how and where I wanted to go with the sound. Man, 2 components + Sub amp is so much easier to tune than 3 +1, at least with this old Rotel. Would the story be different if I were back in my bigger wider taller listening room? Maybe and maybe not. I'm running my rooms open now, so 550plus square feet are in action. However my actual SAMed area is the size of my smaller rooms at Padre Bay-minus the incredible concert ceilings over there.

So let me be clear

The AP-01 setup was too squeezed using only two Platforms and the Rotel is performing more like it is at home. I know with tuning I could flip this script, but the question is "do I really want to"? For me right now I'm enjoying the comfort of ease and can't wait to dive into some recordings to tune in.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:01 pm

Sooooooooooooooooooo Easy Exclamation


listening to Lyle, my facebook page

This is a simple system to tune here at my new place. It's going to be a good place to explore the Rev Combo at. Oh and don't worry, once you see the equipment behind me, you'll see how I will be able to review other electronics. Behind the SAM wall are all the Platform/Racks that I had at the Padre Bay location. It will take a while to make it function like I want but it kind of reminds me of my equipment room at the original TuneVilla. Inch by inch step by step kind of thing.

Hopefully though this will be a chance for those converting to the receiver or integrated type systems to join me in this chapter.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:22 am

Letting it settle.

I'm back to my favorite type of listening. Not touching a thing, and the same recording playing for over a day straight, WOW. Hearing the guitars go from nice but slightly thin to so full when you sit in the chair you are almost in the guitar's body, is my type of system.

I want (need) to be able to be in control and this simple system gives me that security I crave.

I was going to write a longer post, but I need to go back in for another listen, so darn good.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:53 pm

Bare Essence "White" Type 3 or 4? Or maybe even Type 2, I'm not sure.

Initially I thought the Rev6 Signature was going to settle on White Type 2. Now, it's all up for grabs as I keep burning in the Type 4. I've really barely begun on the simple system Combo setup, but the stage is rolling out at me. Is this going to be the nature of Type 4 "White", if so I'm in for the ride. I'm so tempted to start tuning it, but my wiser half is saying "you only have one room Dude". Some of the things that were so common place for me are now gone. My mind wants to go back to system ping ponging, but that place is gone. If I didn't have my cable I would be lost. I do have two other types that I use for voicing referencing, but other than those it's all Picasso & Bare Essence. If you look in my pictures carefully you'll see some IC's that look like stock cables you get from any audio store, years gone by. Right out of the package these sound flat, dull and lifeless. That's until I bake and voice them. That's when they take on a useful function and even can sound quite good for general listening. I use them a lot during breakin. I also use them to help me find the right tension between the RCA male and female. The problem with these are you have to find a set that has certain aging qualities and right materials. I've not marketed them because it's very inconsistent and I throw away as many as I keep to use or get ready for folks. They do work good though for getting ready my ICs.

Another thing that I will be leaning on, in my limited space is going to be my headphones. I need to respond to Sonic's thread but when I have only one system (well I have two but who's counting), my headphones play an important role for my referencing.

So there are several things I am working on in this early new exploration.

here's my layout again




Maggie CDP, Yung, Rotel, SW15 (Sub). Then Rev6 Signatures.

The SAM wall doubles as Equipment Rack on the back side.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:04 am

Here is more on my space.


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:06 pm

I want to thank folks for their emails and PM's. I know many of our readers would like to hear from you on the Forum so don't be shy.

And TuneLand Forum Members, you are great Exclamation

There are right now hundreds of High End Audio Audiophiles who are making the conversion over to music systems, turning away from the typical high end chase. The more you share your MGA system, the more listeners viewing up close and from afar will explore tuning. It doesn't take but a couple of steps into tuning before we as listeners realize the Music System approach blows away the High End Plug & Play setups.

With this season happening I can see the excitement for tuning getting in one of those grooves again! For example, I love that ChrisS is bringing up the Magnavox CDPs to the front line. There is so much to learn by exploring this CDP along with these simple MGA setups I'm talking about. The High End Audio plug & play revolving door game is cool, if you want to play. But you readers would be surprised at the number of people telling me they are amazed at the amount of money they have spent on High End and only reaching the low ceiling of performance as compared to tuning.

On facebook I share my listening to Phil Keaggy



The way the MGA System is setup my stage is very easy to listen to. The Bare Essence Type4 "White" speaker cables have really opened up. If they keep burning in like this I'll be listening in a football field size stage.

In a day or so I'll be putting on some very familiar stages including...



...I can hardly wait to hear what the "White" does with Alice.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:13 am

Very fun listening session with Alice Cooper today and night. Like I've said this place of mine will be a good spot to see what the Rev Combo can do with all of the tools within my reach. I'm going to do drawings if that's ok so people reading can see what's happening and so I can refer to these in some Combo writing I want to do.


Platforms, Blocks, Stands, Rails

This is what I am listening to at the moment.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:02 am

Think about it guys, Rev Combos Very Happy

A system that does it all and with any look you want.



that's exciting Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

You don't have to go fish around for this part and that and end up spending the rest of your life still not getting that sound you want. So simple yet so complete!

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:53 pm

Well, that's just pretty amazing Exclamation

You might not remember (don't know why you would Smile ) that I chose the Rotel receiver as my Combo setup amp, really for no particular reason other than it was convenient. The Rotels (plural) were being used over at Padre Bay along with a bunch of other amps, but this amp was only set free part way before I moved. Two days ago I decided to play....



....and it actually sounded ok. As I was sitting there though, lazy me, kept looking at the amp and that voice was saying "strip down the Rotel more". I knew I needed to start playing a pair of Rev6 Signatures to be sent out and I knew I wouldn't feel right if I just left the amp sit there the way it was. So off goes the system and into my writing room I go with my snipers.

This receiver has tons of cool tweakable parts and the cables are laid out so you can snip away and raise those wires up out of the chassis. I did a basic wire freedom exorcism and popped it back into the setup, thinking I'll let it burn in a day or so and then I'll do more. Well, the stage filled in so much that it rolled right into my listening chair and I became part of the vibration. Hellooooo instruments! Big, bold, real and timely. Holy smoke Daddys the drums are right there and kicking my stage and body. The tambourine work alone on this recording is enough to get 5 stars.

I know I need to get some sleep, but Exclamation

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