Abbey Road Experience

referencing

I know that most of you guys have been in the same listening room a long time, but for me I've been on the move a lot through my listening and so I reference things a lot. Abbey Road among many others have helped me find my center, but this only means I can get my system to do what I want and that's what I look for.

If I can put on track 10 and get the cues and flavor the way I want I know that my system is to the point where I can start exploring.

on goes track 10 Abbey Road

No breakin, and I can tell my system has been tuned to the lower midrange. The crickets & frogs did their thing right off the bat, not as wide as they have been but a good 6 feet off the the right of the right speaker, across the stage (loop) then continuing. They stay well behind the left speaker then head out of the room. The pitch is very low with them, maybe lower than the last couple of settings. It sounds like the frogs are bass frogs and the crickets have been practicing their baritone skills.

I will need to give this some breakin but I like the tone a lot. I will have to see if the cymbals open up but the overall tone and pace is right down my personal alley. the very first thing that pops into my mind is "did those speaker platforms make that big of a difference?".

There is not even a hint of brittle anything happening. I have to say this kind of surprises me a little.

Just did my reference with sun king track im really excited with the results. Will post up my findings soon

Welcome to the Abbey Road thread Tj!

I've just put on "Sun King" on the current setup. I'll let it settle but even at first pass the crickets to the right are way out in my courtyard outside, nice start.

Tj and I are having fun referencing the cymbals.



Why the pond?

This is what the cricket loop sounds like to me. I can hear crickets and frogs pretty clearly and all around me.

Yes, that's the back of my chair and hair

As a reference if you were right behind me here's what you would see if you looked to one side and panned to the other



The PZC's to my left and right are almost directly even with me when I turn my head to look at either one when sitting in my chair. The back of my head is about 8" from the SAM wall behind me.

The speaker center plane is 28" from my ears. Interesting (I didn't plan it this way) this is almost the same distance as when I would be nearfield mixing, give or take 6".

Hi Michael and fellow tunees,

After some good tuning sessions I was later reminded but our senior tunee Sonic on trying out Abbey Rd Beetles Sun King track as a reference on my system as to what have been done previously with Michael and others before. Well that was a fantastic idea!! so here I am posting up on my listening impression of the Sun King.

The initial note I hear is guitar and cricket kicking in where the 1st guitar note is on the left side and cricket is on the right side. Listening to cricket it starts around 4 feet in front of right speaker and past 2ft away from the right wall. Then it slowly moves past my right speaker in a curvilinear fashion with a rise in height from an initial 4-5 ft height to 7-8ft height when it reaches the center stage. Once it reaches at the center there’s a short pause. Which then it starts to continue travel to the left side of the speaker here is starts to drop in height around 6ft and then it stays at that height while passing my left speaker and ending before my listening plane (2-3 ft pass my left speaker). I can hear some frogs burping away at the 2nd  to 3rd chirp of the crickets which is located at right speaker around 5ft in front of the speaker and 5ft in height they float around not nearing the right wall. During this course crickets sounded clear and never once it was lost in transition. This sounds pretty cool!

Also on the initial stage you will hear a splash of cymbal it is not so loud on my setup but it can be heard well from the left side of the stage inline to the left speaker side that radiates to the center stage just in front of the speakers and ends slightly off center to the right. They will linger on till the next splash kicks in. This initial splash I hear takes up slightly more than half of my width stage and height which makes it around 7ft in width and 4ft of height.

On to the drums, 2nd cymbal and guitar, the initial drums starts at the left side around 6-7ft height around 1-2 ft past from my left wall they will be beating in a pulse manner (starting at left side) It sounds full and quite impactful. When it reaches to the right side the 2nd cymbal kicks in 1ft below that beating drum at around 5ft in height and 1ft past the right wall. The cymbals doesn’t sounds fully extended meaning not airy sounding, it doesn’t sound splashy too but it does have some weight to it. Its like being controlled as to not sound splashy. The girth of that splash that I get is around 3ft vertically and 3ft horizontally. Now the guitar starts at the left side around 6ft in height 2ft behind the left speaker will start to move and makes its way to the right side of the wall border at the center the height is around 7ft-8ft. When it is at the right side it sounds deep like 10ft deep. Then the guitar starts to swing from left to right continuously till the vocals kicks in.

Initial start of vocals is centered and slightly diffuse sounding its initial height is around 8ft but as the vocals slowly progresses I find the vocal height starts to drop like its moving forward towards me nearing my face at around 5ft height here the vocals is more life like. If I tilt my head down then I will hear the vocals very clearly at the back of my head. It is so much fun to hear that effect. There is a 3rd cymbal that comes in at a later a stage that sounds like the 2nd cymbal but in my system it sounds smaller than the 2nd cymbal.

So far this is what I have to describe on Sun King it is nice to hear different recordings and the slight changes they have, as Sonic have mentioned with his setup using LP and digital there are some discrepancies . Hope to hear more from others on this. Meanwhile having a blast referencing this track with Michael

Hi Folks

I wanted to add this post of Tj's to the Abbey Road Experience

"Been meaning to post up on the continuation of my tuning advances done with my current light mass system but I got diverted with Abby Roads Sun king track lol. But this was a good thing as I now know where exactly my system is based at by referencing and comparing notes with others who have posted up thier findings previously. With Abbey roads recording not only was I was able to identify some small issues I had on my sound stage (depth and height over the left side stage) which sounded awkward but I managed to make good advancement with my latest tune tweaks! But before that what was done previously before Abbey roads can be as seen from the pic below



My thoughts previously was to tune the amp, my mind was like screaming to me to start working on the amp (loosening its chassis screws and transformer screws). So with that in mind, I did a small tweak and that was to loosen the front faceplate screws seen from pic above. Results was pretty amazing just by loosening them slightly I gained richness and texture. It was quite shocking as the changes was quite profound. With these gains there's more details, emotion and I feel like the vocals took a much more neutral tone. This is welcoming indeed as I previously felt there was a slight strain on certain vocal tracks but now it just sounds more pleasant. Basically there was less sibliance especially that "Shh" vocals . I'm not sure if this is suppose to sound as such cause if I listen in my car audio system that sibliance on those certain tracks are apparent and using my stock heaphones that comes with my phone also sounds as such too. Either way I'm not complaining cause what matters in tune world is what I like and what sounds correct to my ears . With the tunes you are the master of your system and that is a powerful tool to have.


So with that tweak towrds my amp was up then next came Abbey Roads listening session. As mentioned earlier on this thread with Sun King and Before track I felt the stage over left side sounded awkward. I felt that my stage depth and height was not as balanced or filled up well but on other tracks it just sounded beautiful, full sounding with a complete wrap around 360° feel stage. So after looking at it and mentioning it to Michael I decided to do some minor tweaks over the front stage.





The area that im talking about is the RT pillow over the center side of my front wall as seen from the picture above. So what was done is I angled the RT pillow to a more acute angle than before from around 60° to 45°. Results was spot on thats all that was needed to hit that magic spot. Beautiful depth! it did affect other areas of the stage but surprisingly in a good way which was huge relief! Usually with any changes made in my room theres always some drawbacks but this time none. With the same tracks(Sun king and Because) the left side now sounds filled up better spacings and with much more depth than before. On other tracks there was more layering and the back part of my listening space which was already filled up  but now they sound much clearer than before. Talk about hitting that jackpot well I was like that, all just fell into place without any drawbacks. So after giving a day's of settling in I came back in and did another listening session and can confirm that I have managed to hit that perfect spot and what I heard before the effect is correct and there was no drawbacks stage wise. The only thing that changed was the tone but only slightly. I find it sounds slightly smoother which makes it sound a tad warmer than before but there was no loss in details, transparency, highs was as usual sweet not bright, bass sounded plump and extensions on both ends(highs/lows) was very nice. Sibliance was gone, nada, not present at all and like i said details are still well preserved. Maybe the tune God's are align with me this time as I really like what im hearing here. 2 tuning steps and both gave positive results!

Looks like I will have to withold for a while on my next tuning adventure as I find them currently sounding really nice with an involving, textured, balanced and perfect wrap around 360° stage. I will be doing some digging out more on CDs that previously sounded bright on certain tracks just to listen how do they sound now. Till then happy tuning my fellow tunees."

This is fantastic reporting from Tj!

Tj has now been comparing different copies of Abbey Road and that to me is very exciting

So you know Tj and I talk on Facebook messenger often and some of the messages there are too good to pass up. With Tj's permission I'll cut and paste from time to time.

His latest messages reminds me of when Bill333 sent me several copies of Lynyrd Skynyrd for me to compare, all sounding different, but also all able to be Tuned up to sound the same as each other with time and patience.

this is great stuff!

The power of having a Tunable system opens up a whole new world to the listening experience.

Hi Michael and my fellow tunees

Michael just posted above on my abbey road tuning with small changes made to my room tune pillow and amp faceplate. I just recieved my abbey road original cd pressing that I bought from a local vendor, which took about 2 weeks to arrive. So with that order made and arrived safely it made me wonder why I never bought this cd few years ago and only used a cd that I burn from an mp3 site which downloaded few years back lol . Either way my previous description given above was based on the cd that i burned.
Now with the original pressing that I got there are some descripencies heard. To say it's the same sounding is an understatement but to say it is better sounding than the mp3 version well I have mixed feelings about it.

On the original pressing I find the frogs sounded much clearer than mp3 version, it's location is more or less at the same area as mp3 version maybe slightly more forward sounding. However on the contrary crickets heard on mp3 version sounded clearer than original pressing. From original pressing I can still follow the journey that the crickets make starting from right to left but they are not as loud sounding as in mp3 version. In the course of its journey panning from right to left they can be heard all the way without and loss with more or less the same width as mp3 version.

Now listening to the dynamics here's where it starts to get interesting. I find mp3 version is more dynamic sounding with better rythm. Make me wanna tap my toes more as I feel that excitement more. For original pressing it is pleaseant to hear it sounds smooth less edgy i would say a bit polite sounding. Size of instruments is where things takes a big change, on mp3 version it is larger than life itself especially on cymbals and drums. This gives a sense of filling up my whole stage with no gaps. It also gives a sense that my stage size is huge hence it makes the music sound more exciting. On to original pressing well the size of instruments are smaller giving a sense of more space in between each instruments. In a way it makes the stage size smaller but it's not. The location of each instruments is once again more less the same as mp3 version but it's just that the size of instruments in that same location sounds smaller.  Height wise I find on the original pressing is lower by 1ft. Details I would say on the original pressing has slightly more which is quite clear on guitar notes with more extensions too. But I find it not as "live like" as on mp3 version.

The next thing I noticed is the volume of each tracks on mp3 varies greatly. I need to set the volume higher on Sun King track as in comparison to other tracks which I have to lower them down quite a lot. As for original pressing I dont have to do that cause on all tracks the volume heard are more or less the same.

So for now these are the discrepancies I'm hearing from 2 different version of the same album. A question to Michael why such differences are being heard?? I remembered chatting up with Sonic even he heard some discrepancies with his different pressings on abbey roads.

"So for now these are the discrepancies I'm hearing from 2 different version of the same album. A question to Michael why such differences are being heard?? I remembered chatting up with Sonic even he heard some discrepancies with his different pressings on abbey roads."

The other side of the audio industry rarely gets brought up in HEA circles probably because the duplication standards of the industry aren't nearly as clear as it should be and folks want a definitive answer in a world where the variables rule. HEA doesn't want or know how to explain that each product produced is different from each other. Best way I can explain this is by telling what I did in this particular arena.

For a while I was what was called a tape runner, not a term used often. What we did was take a master tape through the stages of producing the master to slaves and slaves to mass production. BTW this terminology has been an issue and attempts have been made to change these terms.

All transfers from original tapes and storage to the mass production sounds different from each other, yes even digital (digital is analog too). If we follow a recording through the different duplication machines used to pump out copies we will hear a difference from one machine to the next. This is why I talk about "The Audio Code" with such importance.

Labels are given to production so we can see the "Recorded Code" all the way back to it's origins, kind of like tracing ones ancestry. When we see AAD or DDD or what other label (SPARS code) is given there is a step that further gives, or should give, a track all the way back through the individual machines being used.  

here's the wiki version

"The SPARS code is a three-position alphabetic classification system developed in the early 1980s by the Society of Professional Audio Recording Services (SPARS) for commercial compact disc releases to denote aspects of the sound recording and reproduction process, distinguishing between the use of analog equipment and digital equipment. The code's three positions refer to recording, mixing, and mastering respectively. The first two positions may be coded either "A" for analog or "D" for digital; the third position (mastering) is always "D" on digital CDs. The scheme was not originally intended to be limited to use on digital packaged media: it was also available for use in conjunction with analog releases such as vinyl or cassette (where the final character of course would always be "A"), but this was never done in practice.

The system was first implemented in 1984. Due to increasing complexity of recording and mixing processes developed over the code's first decade of use, SPARS decided to withdraw endorsement of the code in 1991 because they felt the code was overly simplistic and did not accurately reflect the complexity of typical recording and mixing processes in use at the time. However, many record labels continued to use the code and SPARS decided to re-endorse the SPARS code in 1995."

In audio there has always been different levels of description based on the audience but practically speaking the chain of duplication can be very confusing for those wanting to list a worst to best sound. Every recording has a Real Size/Real Space playback that we may hear 10% of all the way to 100% as we uncover the actual content on a system.

For an easy example

If we recover in playback mode 70% of an MP3 file vs 10% of a standard Redbook chances are the MP3 playback will be giving more content. This is why we talk about the ability of the playback system to reproduce as far as practical vs the wanted numbers. It also starts to become clear that numbers don't make the sound we hear, the physics of a playback system does.

Thanks Michael for your explanation it makes me feel better for downloading mp3 format and burning it on a blank cd as it makes me now realise that mp3 is not always bad to listen to lol. Also yes I have never been found looking at high resolution recording on the types of format recorded on a cd to dictate how good the sound is gong to be but always how good my system is able to bring out the most from that recording code of that particular recording format.

Will definitely be doing more downloads of mp3 formats and burning them on to a blank cd to compare with the original cds that I have. Before this I have listened to few digital formats flac, WMA, mp3 at higher rez and MQA just to name some and listened on to my computer I can hear some discrepancies but was not impressed to say that those "better" formats sounded much better. Maybe it could be that my computer audio setup was not able to decode and play them better than my low mass setup? This is something that I have always asked myself if these formats i converted them to a cd would it sound better or just different ? . This could start a new journey for me to venture on who knows in the future

In HEA circles folks point to the quality of a recording or storage as being something it is not.

They say "if it is recorded well it will sound great", but the truth of it is it totally depends on the playback system's ability to be Tuned to the Audio Signal passing through the entire variable audio chain. "variable" being the key word

what's cool is you exploring this in real time for listeners to follow