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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 01, 2013 6:23 am

A picture of my RCA-less interconnects

Michael's System - Page 13 M90
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 01, 2013 6:34 am

A type 1 setup

Michael's System - Page 13 M91

a pic of bill333's setup

All type1 cables with no RCA's or banana plugs. The amount of clarity and dynamic range from having so little is so much.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 01, 2013 6:39 pm

Hey Guys

I'm getting questions about the Tuning Blocks and Bars so let me give a little background and answers.

Years ago as I was looking for wood for tuning here in the dry air as I discovered that the desert climate was doing something that I had not experienced before. Back in my factories I was taking wood down to a particular low moisture level then started the voicing process. This is part of the secret to my sound. I found out that by using the evaperation rate of the finishes to my wood products changed the sound greatly, and when I say greatly, I mean like in a whole new world. I've talked about this in my listening, but didn't know how much of this was coming across in the understanding. Moving to Vegas (the heart of the mojave desert) took this curing process to a level I never expected.

When I first started here I was still having wood shipped in from my usual places and curing them here, but as I started to research and find wood that came from, or were stored in a certain fashion, I found gave some of this wood a major advantage in sound over what I had experienced before. I'm not saying that this couldn't be done in another part of the world, but what I am saying is being here taught me some things I never knew and also gave me the perfect conditions to create a super wood, or super woods out of some of the species of trees and certain cuts of these trees.

here's the trick

If you have a piece of wood that has a full range character there is a way to take it and cure it in such a way that makes it magical. The first wood I did this with I ended up calling it magic wood cause the drying and curing process did that much to it. I could shape this wood to about whatever sound I wanted. Problem was I knew there was going to be a huge learning curve for people who were reading tuneland and after a while had to back off of my discovery. I would have spent so much time teaching in ratio to the purchasing of, I would have bankruped myself. I do so many SKUs of stuff that it is impracticle to put all these into some kind of production, but my research never stopped and I refined the drying, curing, voicing to the place where when I needed a paricular sound I could voice it into being. This for me was maybe the step I was hunting for as a designer of sound reproduction. The grandslam of all that is tunable.

Anyway, along the way I have been able to put other types of wood into the mix and come up with a voicing method that will convert a system into a super system. This has taken me over eight years to pull off but now I have found the sources that allow me to pick and choose the right wood to start with. You see it's not only that the wood comes from a certain place then you can shape it. No far from this. You have to go listen to the wood and know what to listen for and not only when you get it but also along the process of turning it magical. You have no idea what I go through to make this wood final voiced and how many pieces of wood I go through to get there Laughing  holy smokes I should be locked up for not selling this for a premium cause it certainly cost a preium to do and you really have to know what you are doing to get the sound to happen. One misstep and that piece of wood is heading toward the drying pile waiting for a place where I need that pitch. I'm not kidding you guys, I'm literally making musical instruments here, and might I add even going further than some of the instrument companies I use to do acoustics for.

There's far more to voicing than I'm going to share, but lets just say you have to live with the wood to do it right. And in case your thinking the wood is just sitting still aging you couldn't be further from the truth. Part of it is sitting, another part timing, another sanding, finishing and more, but also it's knowing when to do what and what to do. It's like baking a very complicated cake, but when you put this in your system "explosion".

I know I'm now going to go off into my rambling so before that happens let me tell you about Low Tone Redwood.

Redwood was one of the woods I was working with back when this all started but I didn't give it a fair shake, here's why. I getting the wood first of all from the wrong place, second choosing the wrong pieces and thirdly have it cut wrong. I was taking big blocks and having it cut down (wrong). You have to get the major cut of this wood from the lumber jacks without messing with it. Meaning if you don't get the plakes originally cut you very likely will not get the sound. Other woods you can play with (maybe) but this particular Redwood that comes out of the area I get it does not like to be cut and recut and so on.

Here's what I think is going on. These trees are very particular about the way they hold moisture and when first lumbered they are cut and stacked with pressure. This first pressure squeezes the heck out of them and if not done right you will have a bad batch. I can go to a bunk of this wood pull out a couple of pieces and tell you if it's going to be a good bunk or bad just by the way the pieces sound in general. If the bunk of wood is not stacked that first time before graded a certain way the draining of moisture some how happens at a different rate and the fibers do not sound right. If done another way and during another temp and humidity while being cut the bunk sounds remarkably different.

I knew none of this when I was starting to play with the redwood and disregarded it as an OK wood but not what I was hunting for. One day while testing some DF I picked up a piece of redwood 2x2 by mistake as it was placed in the wrong bin (redwood and Douglas Fir can look a lot a like depending on where they are grown). I couldn't believe what I heard, and went to the counter to ask how much of this Douglas Fir could I get. They told me this was not my northwest DF but a piece of redwood from the same general area. I took it home and did my quicker test and was back to start finding more. Someday I can tell you if interested about the different parts of the world I've been getting my wood from and what I have learned but for now the simple versions.

After figuring out the picking of (far more picky in the choosing process) the redwood and how the drying curing and finishing must happen I have come up with a super wood formula and everything I have made so far is maybe more tonally correct than any wood I have ever used for what I use it for. And one of the things that I really like about it is how well it works with other woods and materials to bring the best out of them.

This discovery for me is like finding the missing link in tonal balance. The way I am voicing this wood is not easy and takes a ton of attention but the results are fairly shocking. One of the things I love about this super wood is the way you can use it to tell you how your other products are working. It's not a fix it wood, but a full range detector. You want clarity and focus this is your starting point, so much so that those of you who are using the brass products and having a harder time because of their directness might find the use of Low Tone Redwood to be prefect in the mix or even a replacement for the brass in certain setups.

I'm very tough on my own designing and don't like to say something is the cure cause I have not been in every situation and been there with every system but I've been to enough to tell you when I find a universal type of find and this is one.

why do I call it low tone?

There are two types of Redwood sounds. One is a good sound but stops in the midrange and can build a cloud if not careful. The other goes far lower in tone and gives a very full dynamic presentation without anything getting stuck in any range which for me has been the nightmare for most listeners. Frequencies gather and as they settle you get stuck in the harmonics baning together instead of spreading out. The Low Tone not only spreads out but tells you if your other parts and pieces are spreading out as well. The Low Tone delivers an amazing harmonic structure and will take you deep inside of the musics detail. It's like you have just turned your component or speakers or what ever into a thicker delivery source without the cloud that sometimes comes with doing this. And without the tilt in frequency response which is a bigger to have either one of these. The drift that tends toward thin and hard and cloudy and merky is a hard one to get right and many times you end up listening to one or the other but with Low Tone this is not there. You can play with your balance as if the mudd is not in the chain while the harmonics expand. This alone makes these blocks and frames and bars a treasure.

Low Tone means: starting with the bottom harmonics
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Hiend001

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 7:15 am

Hi Michael,

Seems that your concept direction has changed from Racks to Platforms and now MGA Cones to Tuning Blocks.
Can you explain the difference between the MGA Cones and the Tuning Blocks use under the equipment? At what condition should we use these two products?
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 9:29 am

Hi Hiend

For me not so much a shift. One of the reasons I'm so sparing on photos of my place is because I try to hide all of the stuff I do so that I have a chance to explore. Also as I do this exploring I try not to think of just me and my sound here in Vegas or where ever I am but also to be thinking about the sound that others are getting around the world. Not only the sound but every variation of the sound. This means understanding transfer but also fields, which I'll cover further into this.

the industry view

What I have done in  my world is so different from other designers in that when they design something they stick by their product to the death. A SKU is a very expensive process and from a business point of view the more SKUs you have the more your company has to invest. For this reason you will see some companies come out with "a" product or product family and stick with it and the story behind it till the end. For me it's not about that but more going through my designing and finding missing links along the way that fit in the blend of the overall. For example I realized serveral years ago most were not going to follow me down the road of top tuning, this meant that I needed to do some thinking about voicing from the gravity point of view and not from the view of the energy being distributed through both top and bottom.  There are so many twist like these that the only way for me to figure them all out is to personally head down every road traveled. I realize that no designer in this business has done this before that I am aware of but the ground has to be broken by someone if we want this hobby to progress past the level that it has gotten stuck in back when the big high mass products became the norm. I also realize that this industry is really far different than it should be and there are not enough products out there that offer the flavors needed to cover the big picture. This industry should be so much more like a well equipt guitar shop that builds their own guitars as well as selling stock models but high end audio has not come to this place yet. You mention change or variable and you might as well close the door when you leave. They are just not ready for anything past their simple misguided formulas and RadioShack meters.

All the products I do are based on a lot of listening to how transfer works and the layers of transfer it takes to get the signal to perform at it's most revealing state possible. For me it's a 24/7 listen-a-thon and design-a-phon. In my mind I'm always thinking variable because this is truly the only way to get everything out of every piece of music and that's my end goal. I want to see the industry go from fixed to open minded and variable. It's the only way to get every piece of music to show itself. The industry however is dead set against this and many of the distributors don't want the make the jump to variable. Basically in changes everything for them including their story to how sound works and even more, they will no longer be able to make "the quick sale". The more time you spend teaching the least amount of clients you will be able to push through. This sounds horrible but it's life and every time you shop for anything that meter is running for someone. My quest is different. I see things in sound not $$$. I see energy following through the parts as signal but also see what is going on with the entire vibratory model.

3 years ago I refined the cones to do some extraordinary things. I'm not sure I would have found those things if I would have not made the shift to platforms. Platforms gave me a new understanding and allowed me to personally go where I had not been before. Racks are great don't get me wrong but when you enter the world of platforms all kinds of thing open up that didn't before. The major thing is you didn't have one component flowing into the next through a rod and constantly retuning each level as you made a change to the level above and/or below. The rack thing is very cool and I love it but there is so much more stablity that happens through the use of platforms. With this stability I'm able to explore materials far more then I had before. It was like opening up my world to a far bigger playing field. So much so that I was able to do things that ran circles around what I did before. Will I still offer a rack? Of course, however I have found different rods that work better than the old ones (another story).

back to the cones and wood

In my listening (starting back in 2002) a found a harmonic range that I had not heard before. The racks didn't give it to me but the platforms did and in doing so I found there was more that needed to be done within the transfer and that there was a dimension where when the vibration went from wood to metal then back to wood was needing to be figured out. Using magic wood and other woods as a buffer there was good but it wasn't until I did the cone evaluation 3 years ago that I could hear a character in the transfer itself that was telling me that maybe there needed to be more space between the cone and the bottom of the component or the surface beneath the point. But it had to be done with something that carried the full range without getting weird with  that much space. So in a way I was stuck. If you got things just right things opened up to a place that was out of this world but if off even a little could be a different outcome. I also found out that different cones worked differently depending on the part they were under and this lead into a whole other world that was too advanced for me to try to explain and would take so much time explaining how cones create electromagnetic point sources. I'm thinking great, people are thinking their decoupling (in the rest of the audiophile world) and I'm so far ahead of this that I'm already talking about the charges that cones produce.

So now that you guys are probably so confused that following this may be out in left field but you asked lol. The cones not only have a transfer that they are doing but they also have a field that is being created between them and the parts in  the components as well. The more the parts inside the components are building fields (every audio part does this) the more they interact with the cones (any cone). The space you put inbetween the chassis and cone and then between cone and board makes a huge difference. And the toughest part is this, what do you put inbetween? If too much of something you loose the transfer if too little you pick up more field. I realize for me and some this is a lot of fun, but for the average listener they have no clue what is going on nor do they care to and no one out there is even aware that this is part of the sound (that I know of).

Let me take I brain break then get back to this.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 11:28 am

Ok, so let me get back at this.

With the platform helping me to see more of the signal and the move to more light weight wood than I ever had before the door was open to make the harmonics even fuller than before. The cones give a very direct very pinpoint transfer, when we add wood slivers or thin blocks the transfer is more wide spread, but there is still more we can do now in that direction. The Low tone blocks add even more distribution of the harmonics when the transfer happens. It's kinda weird really the tuning blocks sound very much like the cones but with a broader format or foot print. They don't replace the sound of the cones, but are a different flavor. Where the cones give a very exacting type of quality the blocks give more of a full quality. With other wood I would almost always say you will end up going wood and cone, but with the Low Tone you don't neccessarily need to use a cone in the transfer. I don't want to discount the Block Cone combo cause it is really quite good but for some transfer points you may choose the cones or the block. I'm not sure I want to push one over the other cause as soon as I do that someone will choose the opposite but I'm glad I have both to choose from.

I don't really think it's my job to make the choices for the listener cause if I start doing that than people will start looking at my sound as being one particular one and that's not really the case with me. I can see some going one way or another but a lot of people are going to mix for may reasons.

I can tell you my likes and dislikes of my own system and products and what my own personal wish list are but as far as doing that for others this would be hard. I'd rather get people in the ball park and give them options so they don't get stuck when trying to do something. Plus if someone has a particular problem I might be able to direct them a little.

Here's an example, when I hear garp talk about his sound I always think wood over cones. I don't picture garp being someone that is going to lean toward metal as the transfer for much of his system. If someone was more of an ultra detail guy and like thiner harmonics rather than thicker I might first suggest the cones over the blocks but from now on will probably recommend that they get at least one set of blocks to see.

These particular blocks though I want to add, give a very cone type sound to their transfer, and I feel weird about saying that cause I've never heard a piece of wood that was this close to the sound of brass. Yet the Low Tone Blocks do something that the cones don't do. Their thicker sounding. I say that and watch when I make a change here I'll be eating my words Laughing 

One thing for sure is if you get the blocks, and you should you will have to tell your findings and you will probably understand why I have a hard time doing the this vs that thing now that I have this wood in my choices.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 12:56 pm


Quite a change of direction......
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 6:35 pm

More like a step in the process of moving closer to the signal.

I'm not sure I have ever changed direction, that would indicate that I turned around at some point and went another way and that to me would seem strange.

But there is a history, and if you follow it you will see how as the products themselves changed in the industry the tune was there to change with them.

I can remember first starting with the pillows and the ClampRak. This was pretty as they said "revolutionary". Now that was a change for them. They went from big traps and huge slatted walls to this little pillow. When the first reviews of comparisons came out I actually got a visit from one of the companies I was in competition with and he wanted to hire me. An interesting time.

When the clamp rack came into being I had everything from the smallest rotel receiver to the biggest Symphonic Line amps and CAT preamp being clamped. Then Clamping turned more into tuning, and my approach became as time goes on more delicate to get the most.

The more delicate the process of tuning becomes the more I need to refine my transfer points. If not, it's like pouring the vibrations through a tiny hole instead of finding the right size of exchange and the right material for this exchange "and" shape of material.

Let me give you an example. I've had people back in the days of going from the audiopoint to the MTD where the MTD was much cleaner and more dynamic but with certain equipment the high frequencies tilted up (an on going problem with electronic audio parts in general). Why this happens is simple. The high frequencies are the smallest and easiest to cluster. You can't hear this with an audiopoint because they have a coating that damps some frequency ranges causing a cloudy sound. The MTD did away with this cloud as you have seen said. When some of these guys though would get stuck with this tilt problem I had them take their cones and barely grind the point off, giving the transfer spot a little bigger escape. This made a huge difference and started the development of me looking at the round point. Another option that came along was instead of going from the bottom of the chassis to the cone, then directly to the shelf I started building another layer of transfer. A voicing was done under the component with a piece of wood (usually a magic wood sliver or small block), then at the shelf end the same thing.

This move led to the redesigning of the shelf itself, and the sound took me from the heavy hemlock to the much thinner ply, but not any ply cause the first ones sounded horrible. I finally found the secret to using ply and at the same time I found how to voice other types of wood.

Remember this photo

Michael's System - Page 13 M94

After this photo the hemlock shelving was no more except for a few custom orders.

Also at this time should have been when the blocks came out but I had not unlocked the secrets to the sound I was hunting for. Which was a truly fullrange block. The problem here was the rate of absorbance in this big of a piece of wood when being used for transfer. It's easy to turn this into a big sponge and for equipment transfer points this is not the place for that.

At this point in time 2005-ish I really thought the industry would be ready for transfer and tuning but was disappointed that no one wanted to move on this as they were dug into their fixed world fox holes deeply. The thought that their trading components selling game coming to an end was too much for them (the industry). I had people over who went wow but they in the end did the same thing that they did back in the 90's when I tried to indroduce tuning. "yes it's much better, but". You see here was my thought, silly me. I wanted to build everything custom for the whole industry so they would have a piece of transfer that was designed specifically for their component. Little did I think it through but this would mean I would have to have someone make the stuff that knew what they were doing one, and two I would have to know someones personal taste.

hmmm Idea  let me think about this study 

My refining though never stopped and the world of the platform had to be born. First the connection between the speaker and the floor does not cut it. And honestly neither does the rack to floor. People with racks should have them up on platforms as well, but why go this route if the Platform is the next step anyway? At the same time there are those who have more components and we have to keep that in mind. If they don't have a big enough floor for platforms what are they going to do. So obviously depending on the size of system I need to provide for those at every step along the way.

more thoughts required scratch 

This is not an abandonment or change in direction but more meeting the needs of the whole. Some are going to use racks, other platforms, others racks on platforms, others tunable rooms, and the list goes on for system variations.

If it were up to me we would all have 2 piece systems and the whole host of transfer choices to accommodate, and all be in tunable rooms on the second floor of the house, but this is unlikely to happen and as I find parts and pieces of the chain to meet the big picture of all the variables there are going to be revelations that continue to develop. The Low Tone Redwood is one such revelation.

The low Tone is not the first time I have gone almost metaless in my system but it's the biggest step in that direction. Is metaless the goal? I have no goals when it comes to transfer except to be able to meet everyones needs for sound. Recall the resitone? There are some places where this does things closer to the signal than metal but not entirely. I believe that there are going to be combos of the different voiced woods and metals that make the tuning magic happen, but your combos may be different than your neighbors and for me to say things in absolute terms would make me like those that I preach against. You are going to find the right tuning combos and answer the questions of space and tonality for your setup. I can get you to 3D sound and inside the envelope and make the tools to get you there as well as make some treasured finds, but it's you who must learn your equations.

For me for example, when I find something that puts the system into a new level and talk about it I ask myself how much do I tell and how fast. With something like the Platforms and transfers I spend a ton of time exploring everything before I talk too much. Still though I hold my breath till I get it in others systems to see if it does there what it does here. I don't like it when half or maybe more like 95 percent of this industry makes stuff that make changes but don't work. It drives me crazy and I roll my eyes and feel so bad for people who buy into it. Like for example this whole shielding thing and blocking filters are such a scam along with heavy chassis and so many other things. But this is the world we live in and I have to every day deal with someone from the very beginning all over again. many who go ahead and throw the money at something that takes them further away only to find years down the road that they have to get back on track.

If I were the customer, here's what I would do. No I'll save this for next post.

As far as answering the questions that I think I'm being asked (and have been asked everytime I discover something), the racks vs platforms and the blocks vs cones, look at my progression and also the progression of the industry and you as a listener. My goal is a split one based on my view and fixing the views of the high end audio industry. As I research this and go further myself I keep finding parts of that 90 percent that sonic mentioned a while back. I can say, yes I have been to float. Float is a real place and maybe it is closer to the original signal than anything I have experienced. It's a place where and when the system disappears all together and you are surrounded by no sonic signature at all. You are there. For myself as a listener this is my end game and if I never would have heard it I truly doubt I'd still be doing this. I'd probably be somewhere making money, but ever since I did hear it there has been something inside of me that wants to help people get there and this means figuring out that very fine line that all of you have gone through. That line that says so close. The key to finding this place is balance. It's balancing everything in the audio chain to the place where the signal just is. It's like that guy says the 10 percent. I believe we get in the tune to the 25 or even 35 percent of the music at times but when everything is inline perfectly there is something that happens that turns everything on wide open. It's like someone removed every audio term there is and the music is there, all of it or at least so much that we can't tell a system from real.

where does the platform fall in this

I've given you words but am still not sure I've made the point and I'm not sure I can. Maybe it's something that has to be experienced and maybe it's something that I need to talk about more. You can help me with this by doing what sonic and hiend did here. Ask me on my thread. And if it's still not clear ask me in a different way till you get it. To me the things I do are all on a path of unlocking mine as well as your systems.

The one thing I don't want to do or start is the thinking that because I opened up a new treasure chest it means that you should throw away the cones or rack. I'm not a new model car salesman or audio company salesman Laughing . This to me is an ongoing thing in the same direction I have always gone in. It's levels and it's variable and most importantly it's refining the art of personal taste. I can tell you that there are things about the cones that nothings else does, however do the cones do every flavor? I can't answer this because there are so many variations and conditions that it would take several life times to be in all.

so did we get anywhere today

I don't know but it was fun watching me in my head try to figure out a way to introduce a new part to the mix. A part that does something I haven't heard before but have been hunting for.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Now back to the question

If I were the customer what would I do?

Back in the tuneland archives (if we ever find it again) I spent a time going after the development of wood really heavy. The answers to your sound are the same answers that have been studied for thousands of years in the development of musical instruments.  Some instruments are made of metal but the ones that grab me are the ones made of wood. Why? Wood has a fiber structure that is able to bring out a range that is more complete over any other material. Not all wood of course but some can cover the passing of the entire 26,000hz we use and do it with bigger pieces. What do I mean bigger pieces?

What I'm talking about is low mass wood that you make bigger pieces out of that don't cloud the sound but give a full dynamic appeal to the note. Does this make sense, are you following me? The longer I live in the desert the more my ears are opening to light weight low mass materials and their resonant characters. As a result I am taking this transfer world to a far higher level than I have in the past. The way magic wood opened my eyes on a small scale I'm now doing on a much bigger level. Some of you have my magic wood slivers and pieces and can hear how big of an affect they have. Well can you imagine this in a PZC or room voicer or mini platform that is not 3.5"x3.5" but 12"x12". This is really something and for me bridges a gap between almost voicing things and super voicing things.

Between the Brazilian and Argentine pines, the magic wood (now being able to be voiced bigger) the Low Tone Redwood and the Music Ply mixed in with a little poplar and Douglas Fir I have a sonic treat that is able to go places that I in the past wanted to go but was never able to quite get there without some very hard work and maybe not at all.

I'm holding in my hand right now a Room Voicer/PZC that absolutely converts my room into a concert hall. It really bugged me when listeners didn't make the jump to PZC's back in the late 90's. The industry with this product should have turned upsidedown but again what can I say "hundreds got it, thousands didn't". Now though picture a PZC that is a third the weight of the original. A PZC that doesn't have cherry but a magic wood face. There are now two versions. The first is a 12"x12" magic wood/brazilian pine combo with an Argentine tuning board in it. Wow! The bigger models go to a Brazilian Pine front Low Tone frame and Argentine tuning board. The floor model has a Brazilian Pine base. The base alone sounds 3 times better than the old base.

Ok, let me not get too long winded here.

So what I would do if I could afford it would be do my room in the PZC's.

second I would simplify

I would not hesitate in making my system a two piece system. If you have one source there is really no reason to make things more complicated than two pieces. The source and the amp. Might I recommend the Magnazox and the Sherwood 4105. This is the tuning combo of choice. Save yourself tons of money and ear space and make your setup simple.

The audiophile spends most of his high end audio life tuning around his high end audio stuff.

Look, let me help you here. If your looking at getting a high end piece of gear find out what designer's system looks like, cause that's the best your going to get. Your trusting his ears right? Then take a look at how he listens. If this is the level you want to go to do it. Do it and I'll see you in a couple of years Laughing  or stop trying to make your components and speakers into something they are not. The day I stopped glorifying the myth was the day I started to have great sound. Out of high end I got sound and I even got what I thought was good sound, but it wasn't great sound. It was incomplete and I wanted more. I'll tell you the truth here. it was so incomplete that there were times I would visit the midfi or lowfi guy and hear stuff there that I wanted in mine. That's sad but true. High end audio products after the mid 90's are very questionable in my book, and products like the ones I mentioned a paragragh back have past them by. Once in a while I will see something that someone does that breaks this mold but not often and is usually for a specific reason.

And let me put a note in here cause I know I have been slow and some have been waiting on me for your mini mods and I'm sorry. But let me do this for you. Buy a pair of Dayton Audio 652's on sale right now for 34 bucks and I will help you mod them. These will hold you over till I get my act together. The tweeter in these are worthless but because you are runing the woofer fullrange getting rid of the poly fill and treating the inside somewhat it will still sound better than what you are probably listening to right now.

more to come
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2013 4:17 am

Oh BTW where's my manors, I'm listening to

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 06, 2013 7:37 pm

Hi Gang

I just realized that I have been talking about a new Room Voicer and PZC and have not showed you them. Sorry about this. I will try to get more photos soon but here is one in the works that I took a picture of before installing the tuning bolt and board.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 08, 2013 12:39 am

Hi Guys

The last few days have been mostly about relaxing for me. You never think about how much there is to do until you stop doing it.

The saving grace to this for me has been having the music playing in the next room. I enjoy the sound of breakin for some strange reason when it's my setup, cause I can hear it go from fresh to settled, and I try to make my setups so that they always expand in the stage and warmth.

In my rest mode I've not done much but have been enjoying the Tuning Blocks and their versatility.

The one thing that I want to point out is when you make a voice change in your system the whole system changes and you need to stop and take a look at the whole picture or should I say new picture. The transfer and acoustics "change" with every move and we should never think that we are making moves that only affect one particular form of energy cause this is not the way energy works. As much as I remind you of this I remind myself of the same thing and have to trane myself to always be thinking of my system like cooking and when I make a change it affects the taste of the whole.

My system right at this moment is Low Tone Blocked to the max and I like it. Surprisingly this has not over taken the sound which is a bit of a shock for even me. I'm not saying this will be the case for you cause I have never found one material that does it all and in every situation, but when my mind is in Low Tone mode and I find the places to put these blocks things are happening that are scary.

I don't want to say much more cause I'm still hunting for the over do but maybe it's me and so far and I've gotten lucky. But even placing these around the floor, on the window seal around the speakers under the platforms under the components and on, I have heard things do some magic. I'm not saying you just throw them down but you move them till they have the right transfer or placement.

I've also noticed that each one of them sounds a little different than the next (of course they would) and I have found out which ones do what as if I was voicing or blending my system into tune.

ok, back to relaxing
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 08, 2013 7:56 am

Well, I was suppose to be resting but instead listened all night.

You know every time I do this I come to the same conclusion. I don't want a system that plays the music, I want the music to come through the system and that means the 5 CD's I played through the night all needed to be voiced separately if I wanted them to be where I liked them. I could have left the system and judged how that recording did according to that setup, but this was not how I wanted to spend my time. I wanted to see inside of each recording. It wasn't tough tuning them but it did mean that I needed to know my tools of the tune and what they would give me when I heard something.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 12, 2013 7:41 am

The last few days I've been listening to my latest warm sound and got to say this is really enjoyable.

The drums and air is rich and involved. If I ever had to settle for a system playing the music this would be close to the sound I would choose. It's not perfect but so easy to listen to.

Tonight I went from DB's "hunky dory" to PM's "band on the run"

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I love it when my drums have fluff to the skins and tons of warm air filling the bottom. That may sound misleading and making you think loose but not at all. There's a full tightness going on but fat as well.

The air is behind me and that makes it nice to relax and even rest my head on the back of the chair.

I love Paul's bass playing and when you have this recording fat everything blends so nice with that fat.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 27, 2013 2:41 pm

Exploring the hard floor vs the upstairs floor has been a true revelation for me over the years but recently having a chance to take this in again I've refreshed my memory in what comes up missing when listening on a concrete flooring.

The biggest sonic difference is the feeling and freedom of the music. Sitting upstairs the music is able to travel inside of the floor and interact with the walls and ceiling in an equal partnership. When this co-op is taken away there is an inner dimension to the stage that comes up missing. Maybe the way to describe it is a lack of internal meat to the pressure zones, that seems to make the stage and image some what hollow.

When the upstairs room becomes use to the music being play it feels like I'm walking into a "balanced body of sound". Any surface that is too hard contributing to the sound takes away from this body. And if that hard surface makes its way too much into the sound the recording becomes disembodied and difficult to maintain a flow of movement.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 28, 2013 8:47 am

COMING SOON...

THE MGD CONCRETE FLOOR NEUTRALIZER PLATFORM!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!

Robert
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 29, 2013 3:30 pm

Laughing 

Hi Robert

It certainly has been an interesting life of listening that's for sure. I wish that my body had enough energy to live up to what I have learned and continue to.

This year and in the past I have wished that we as a hobby would have moved forward in the art of vibration (that wish for me will never end) and that the industry would offer a world based on the truths and music that is found inside of all this information. I have had the oppertunity to see (hear) these waves/vibrations/tones develop and as they do I have discovered that the recording is not at fault, and that for me is a wonderful finding. This means if I have the time and patience and the tools and knowledge of these tools I can uncover anything musically.

Our rooms become a place of music worship and letting go of fixed, step by step, is the key to reaching that end of "finding".
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Been enjoying hearing the difference in recording styles over the last few days. I haven't made any changes to the system just letting it tell the music what to do as it was set to "band on the run".

My desire to jump out of the chair though was always present to a degree as I could clearly hear the how the structures of the signal was different from one recording to the next, however how would I know what someone is dealing with unless I go there myself.

If I were to judge the music instead of tune the system many of these recordings would have gone in my "B" stack, but I was surprised at how many with this simple setup made for good listening.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 13, 2013 12:24 am

Having a guest here for the last couple of weeks has been fun, and I'm playing through CD's a lot faster than I usually do. Soon I'll reach DJ status I'm sure  Cool  during the night I do my one CD settle thing but starting the next morning it's play that funky music all day, all over again. One recording right after another. Sally is amazed at how each recording sounds so different. I bring her into the room a couple times a day to get her response. This is usually when I have a fairly big stage. She comes out of the room "exhausted" she says  Laughing  trying to keep up with all the movement (a few times frightened). Other times I peek in the room and she is in a listening coma, unable to move. "I had no idea" has become a common phrase.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 31, 2013 10:06 am

Man you guys look like your having so much fun that I had to throw on some

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 santa   rendeer 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeWed Jan 01, 2014 4:47 am

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 04, 2014 1:15 am

Ok, shoot me if you want. I'm not saying that the RCA Red Labels are the best. In my world I don't care to be honest. I want to hear what's there and the intent. Sometimes though I feel they did get it right and grabbed a piece of mood that is no where else.

As much as I like to get out there and float around in rock island I still like coming home to the real masters of space. It doesn't matter to me if Pink Floyd is taking me on a head journey or if

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it's Colin, I'm along for the ride.

Some say headphones when listening to Sibelius but I disagree. If you have a system that is stuck between the speakers than yes, maybe you should grab the phones and fade away, but if you have a system that knows how to put you in the middle this is a spacial ride. The particular pieces on this recording I feel are best done with as much gentle touch as is deservingly possible.

You know after a long time in this industry there are a few things I would like for people to say about me. One of them of course is that I brought variable tuning to the front and center, and maybe the second thing would be that I was part of teaching the hobby how to have space. Spacial listening to me is the truth and when I put on a recording that goes way beyond the structure of the room and makes you laugh when you look at where the speakers are compared to the sound around you, well, that's just a slice of heaven.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 09, 2014 5:31 am

Are you afraid of balance controls  Question 

I was thinking about this the other night when I went from one recording to the next and notice a shift in soundstage. Instead of revamping my system I simply made the adjustment and moved on. This may sound weird but I run my system in different modes left to right so that I keep burning in all the parts. I've been around the production block too many times to think that any thing about this hobby is in fixed mode and that my own body is in a state of perfect listening status. No, age and learned listening skills have been factors that I have enjoyed embracing as the years roll on, the same as finding a newly refined tuning material or method. The thought of being done in an ever changing motion-ful world seems silly to me. Having the tools of the extreme listening trade is a must, but no more of a must than knowing our bodies. I personally hear my listening go through changes all the time and have learned to have fun with my own private listening games and adventures. Listening at night vs day, listening when tired vs awake, listening after a workout vs veg mode. So many things add to either the fun or frustration and having a grip on where I am at in a listening cycle or change is something I have incorperated in my sound.

Thinking about the ears and balance

Hearing is one of the most essential human senses that refer to the ability to discern vibrations through the ear. To determine which ear can most people hear best with, many scientists have conducted researches in the past years regarding the sensitivity of the right ear and the left ear to vibrations. It's all about understanding vibrations. Based on studies, some scholars proved that the theory about handedness is important to determine the ear that people often use. We tend to think that our listening is done on a unit basis and this is not the case. For instance, research proves that right-handed people tend to use their right ear more often than their left ear. The same goes with left-handed individuals as they tend to use their left ear more than their right. In the listening room we are adjusting to more of a whole but during the rest of our life's functions we are partial with our listening giving attention to one or the other ear.

The Right Ear (stuff I found)  study 

"Research conducted in September of 2004 proved that the right ear is more useful than the left ear when it comes to listening to conversations. Experiments were done on infants to determine which ear can most people hear best with. The tests showed that an infant’s right ear respond strongly to sound that has similar vibrations with speech. With this finding, scientists were able to understand why most individuals use their right ear when they are talking with other persons on the mobile phone.

The Left Ear

Based on the same research, scientists found that an infant’s left ear responds strongly to sound that has similar vibrations with music or singing. With this finding, individuals should use their left ear over their right ear when they listen to music. Some other research done by scientists from Sam Houston State University in Huntsville, Texas showed that hissing sounds like sweet nothings or emotional talks are better heard in the left ear.

The Ear and the Brain

The findings of the researches mentioned above are related to the conclusions of early studies about the functions of the brain. As most people know, the left hemisphere of the brain processes speech or prolonged sound vibrations while the brain hemisphere of the brain processes tones. Because of the cross connections of the left-brain hemisphere and the right-brain hemisphere, the left ear hears music-like vibrations best and the right ear hears speech-like vibrations.

Conclusion

The appropriate answer to the question, which ear can most people hear best with is; it depends on the type of sound vibrations they like to hear. If they want to hear or listen to conversations, the best ear to use is the right ear. On the other hand, if they want to hear songs or any form of music, then they can hear best if they use the left ear."

Although this report gives a R vs L type of view, we as listeners know that our world is all about the combo. We have to put what the "two" ears together are doing and our everytime (in the moment) listening into action. For me this kind of thing is mixed in with the facts that everything affects everything else and it's up to me to understand my hobby and not go off the deep end everytime I hear soundstage shift. Same goes for tone shifts.

In this hobby we act like the sound is sitting there as a still just waiting for us to enter in our perfect state of listening mind. And add on this that we think all recordings are the same.  Rolling Eyes

My hobby took off for me when I started to make it into a tool I could use to go where I wanted to. When I use to listen to a system play the music I always ended up in the same place "dissatisfaction". It was fun that I was a part of the music listening hobby but the listening itself failed to deliver, on a consistant basis, where I wanted to go. Bored and fatigued, I couldn't except that this (regardless of money) was suppose to be this bad. Why would I want to listen to something as if I was bearing it instead of being inside the event? Call me moody but I like to sit there for hours upon hours and drift away into a world of reproduction and interpretation. The last thing I want to do is be exposed to even one minute of feeling out of balance. When I do feel (hear) this I take a quick look at my music presentation to see what is wrong. This includes my room, recording, electronics, environment, conditions and me. Any one of these could be just a hair off and the stage could be completely wrong to my thinking. How do I know which of these conditions it is?

Answer coming up  Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeSun Jan 12, 2014 12:07 pm

Over the years, and I continue to work on and define, I have payed close attention to the conditions my listening and tuning takes. I study the mood of the system, the mood of my environment and my own personal listening mood. I have found something that has changed the way I look at this hobby and art form.

Is the music sounding that way or is my particular condition dictating to me that things are sounded that way?

I'm not talking about the audiophile syco babble. I'm talking about real conditions that change the sound of my system minute by minute and change my abilities as a listener. Engineers put away your test equipment.

I'll try to think of some of these pretty interesting things and maybe come back to this post and add to it so make a note if you want.

The first thing I wanted to mention is, do you know your brain and ears have their own volume control? Further more and more scary you have your own built in tone control. Both of these controls are built into your mind and body and work off of a couple of principles. One is the flow of air you are taking in and out of your body and how it is mixing with the blood, the other is your bodies adopt system.

Many times when listening to a system we are paying attention to what is going on but our minds and bodies may be on a totally different page doing what they do naturally, circulating blood and air. As a young engineer I didn't realize I was doing this until after it became the norm but somehow I developed a routine that I did before every concert that was relaxing (or prepping) my ears and getting me ready for a night of paying attention. When I didn't do this practice things always sounded off for some reason and I would react to the sound I thought I was hearing instead of what was being played. I didn't think this was a big deal till listening to what I had recorded while in the zone as compared to a cold start. I was shocked at the difference. Because of this I started to notice the exact same thing when it came to listening to playback. I was setting myself up for good or bad way before I started actually listening. What's really shocking is how fast our bodies (ears and brain) go into reaction mode and depending on how we are wired we develop a peak in listening and a step down. When we are in peak mode we experience a completely different sound than when in step down. Our bodies also experience a different feeling sensation while going through this process. I bring this up because we can actually train ourselves to listen to things at a deeper level.

At this point I need to take a rest because I want to actually do this real time while writing this. I'll be able to be more descriptive.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 13 Icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2014 2:07 pm

So I did my first listen. The warmth was the very first thing that came into my mind then the cues of floating around me. It felt like a blanket of warm air. I listened from 3am until 5am then took my break. I stopped the CD went in my room and took a nap. Got up, moved some wood around downstrairs, came back upstairs sat down and put on the music.

"that couldn't have been the same volume" was the first thing that now went through my mind. Then an unsettled feeling of the frequencies not being balanced top to bottom. My mind started looking at the system as if something was changed. What was changed was the system had been stopped. It was plugged in and warm just not playing, and "it was now daylight" and checking the weather there was a humidity shift of 10%. If blind folded I would have called this a different system, but wait a hour and a half later I'm starting to hear a familar sound, go back in the room and much of the warmth is back and even though it's clear to me that the sound is different I like it again and feel comfortable. I could easily listen to this. But is it the same as last night? In time my mind is telling me it's close and I can relax. Relax being the key word here. And as I relax and not hearing anything sticking in my mind as maybe wrong I can float away into listening land.

Now let me go back and paint some pictures

I have a stressfull day, I sit down and listen and one of two things is going to happen. I'm either going to relax or I'm going to hear something wrong with my system and feel the need to correct it. The system hasn't changed or has it, and I haven't changed or have I? Let me think about this. If this would have been my drumset I would have said things were going in and out of tune, so way can't I say the same for me. Ego removed I have to admit that I am one of the major factors in my systems sound.

night and day

Something audiophiles never talk about yet is very noticable is day listening vs night listening. Again there are 2 factors at play. One is where are we at in our listening cycle and the difference in energy.

did you know  Question 

Did you know that the electromagnetic fields around your system are different during the day then they are at night? How different are they? Enough to change from light to dark and that's big. We're so use to our sun coming up and going down that we don't take into account how major of a shift it is to listening when the Earth is facing the light and when not. Our senses during the night are completely different than our senses during the day and this has been documented in science yet in the audiophile files we again try to pretend things are fixed. We sometimes get so uptight about our sound not being right that we create all kinds of problems rather than work on the overall flow of our systems. both pysically and in our minds/bodies our systems make huge shifts.

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