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Michael Green
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 23, 2014 8:15 pm

Hi Sonic

My camera must be here somewhere  Rolling Eyes . I've looked in the usual places.

in the meantime

Got in from the great outdoors and ready to relax.

on goes

Michael's System - Page 16 M194

their we go  Cool

Even from the very first the stage is as soon as I walk in the room. What's going on, it can't be this easy.


Last edited by Michael Green on Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 25, 2014 10:12 pm

Hi Guys

Last night I was listening to the hall on "Pines of Rome" Atlanta symphony. Today, what a twist,  Laughing I have on "born in the USA". I know what was I thinking, but that's me.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 27, 2014 1:51 am

took a little while

but "Born in the USA" is finally hitting those low notes in the opening song.


Michael's System - Page 16 M200

And when they did this recording took on a whole new sense of dynamics. It was ok at first, then moved to a nice big stage, then sat there for a while until it decided to take a turn toward dynamics and with those dynamics came all this drive pace and punch. Now his vocals jump and command, and the surroundings have come alive to give him moral support. I was enjoying it before, but now I get it. This recording is almost like watching a pep rally.

Sorry Bruce, it took me a while. Here I was about to say "born to run" blows you away, but now I'm starting to understand a little more. You know what this means though, I'm going to have to put on Born To Run. What's fair is fair.

 Cool 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 28, 2014 4:12 am

Well

A new week begins, and it starts off for me with a tuning CD that is really hard to get tired of.

Michael's System - Page 16 M202

What a selection. It's like one after another of pieces that I want to get up and tune, or sit back and listen to how different these pieces are from each other. The reason I like complete recordings is so I can tune in and leave well enough alone but this CD forces you to listen to a wide range of different recording styes. That could drive someone Koo Koo but it really doesn't bother me cause it's Simon. Paul Simon, I am listening to Paul Simon isn't that something. I am so glad I did not grow up in the 1800's. Missing out on this is unforgivable. You know how people say if they could go back in time, well I wouldn't miss out on the beginning of stereo for nothin.

Most of the songs on here give me a nice undertone to the midrange that is smooth and pleasing. I should be looking for things to pick out and tune but it's so darn polite to listen to this CD on the system I don't want to.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 28, 2014 5:30 am

Just made a block change.

I changed my FR block on my CD player to a heavier one out of the same batch Hiend001 has. It was nice so I'll let it break in. I think though because my room is so small that I need to make sure I don't loose that extremely wide stage I get. But I also think It's time I get a set of D27's in my room. These tweeters are getting out performed by some of the other toys in here and I'm starting to hear where they are wanting to open up. Of course the room is also screaming for some real speaker cabinets. It's fun to make these do what they do but my ears are saying keep all things equal there buddy boy. So I guess the saw cuts an ugly set of speakers tomorrow.

lets see I have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, or is it 8 thumbs and 2 fingers

 Suspect 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 30, 2014 8:38 pm

As long as they add up to 10 at the end of the day, good to go.

Am I hearing the genesis of the new speaker line.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 30, 2014 11:43 pm

Sorry that I'm joining everyone late today, needed to design a concert floor for a small hall in the Carolinas.

Yes, I love designing speakers. Today I was drying the wood out after cutting the 6's boards.

 Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 7:24 pm

Hi Guys

I'm working on voicing Bill's beams today so I'll be up on TuneLand later on.

But can I say something first.

I want to tell you guys what a privilege and honor it is to work with such great listeners Exclamation I mean that, you guys are the best and have the greatest ears. When I see you guys dialing things in miles from me it makes me want to do back flips, no kidding. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to be me.

thank you
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 10:01 pm

having a nice time listening to

Michael's System - Page 16 M210

"the west is the best" cymbals are sounding great
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSun May 04, 2014 8:14 pm

recording signatures part 1

I want to bring this up again as something very important. I know that we all want a system that can play it all, that's what this hobby is, and we have gotten closer than anyone I have ever seen. There's not another method out there that reaches the level of listening that the "method of tuning" does. You hear me talk using my own physics (hopefully) based language to describe how and why this works, and I'm hoping this helps, but when you uncover the deeper parts of the recordings code not only do you open up new territory of recorded information but you are also going where the next recording may or maybe not go with the same setting.

here's a post I made that you should read
___________

You've reached a listening level where your system is either going to play the music or the music is going to play the system. What is going on is something I hear all the time. It's the difference between setting your system one way and listening to all the music on the system set, or when you hear the difference you slightly tune the system to fit the code of the music.

When you start hearing the music come forward and even around you you have opened up the recording to the point where you are digging into the rest of the recording that has been missing before. Instruments will start appearing that you never knew were on the recording and a sense of space that wasn't there before. Several of your recordings might match this setting but pretty soon your going to put on a recording that is going to sound shalow. You will need to find that small (and it is almost always small) adjustment that will make that recordings depth suddenly fall back and fill in.

I do want to tell you at this level of tuning you are going to be able to see inside of the recording once they are set, but you are also going to hear a bigger difference between each recording. There is no way around this type of tuning unless you do what I do, and that is put on a piece of music and wait for the system to settle around it. This is both fasinating and to the guy who wants it instant impossible to live with.

It comes down to tuning the individual recording, setting the system and listening to one piece sounding great and the next not so great, or finding that right spot and waiting for the recording to push it's will on the system.

One thing for sure for the listener who wants to go from one recording to the next. You will have to find those simple tunes that move in the direction you need to to tune in the recordings as thay go one way or another. I have never heard one setting play it all.

The hard part (not for me cause I like this) is hearing the recording open up to a place it's never been, then changing recordings, tuning it in, then going back and having to retune to get where you were. When I see a person starting to do this, it's when I know their system has reached this level of performance. I watch you guys to see if your tuning in per recording or leaving the system set.
______________

It's very important that all of us in the hobby who want to uncover that portion of the music that someone somewhere else is hearing and we aren't and vice versa understand that, one it is there (and more), but also it may be in a part of your physical setup that needs to be tuned to let it through.

to be continued...


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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 5:29 am

I wanted to do a part 2 to my last post then "the doors" sucked me back in the room for a while. I was walking to another room and got scared by Jim whispering the vocals on "riders on the storm". It creeped me out so I had to go in and listen to the voice behind Jim's lead vocal part. I've heard this many times before and this time the whisper was played very nicely. Song ends I start to get up and the beginning of Spanish Caravan hits and I knew I was going nowhere.

I started thinking about the guy who said these soundstages are not real on the stereophile forum and thought to myself. Did someone on Stereophile say that recording soundstages are not real? Is it possible I am in the wrong hobby? Has the audiophile world gotten that messed up, or just the snob part that thinks they are helping people by saying stupid statements like that. The soundstage I just got out of the room listening to was as real as it gets. The rain storm was fantastic and I could feel the tape machine and hear the warble. This is the hobby baby Exclamation  Listening to all those things that make it special and having a song throw me into the studio is why I do this. Sometimes it blows my mind that people in this hobby can dish out such disrespect for the experimental age of rock. I mean think about it, rock, folk, blues, jazz and classical all given new life in 1959. A whole new art was born and in my book with the art of stereo was also the birth of real space recordings. I'm still not sure the audiophile world even knows what real space means. I know for me when I tune in a recording that breaks through walls and flows around me, I am put into a state of amazement and wonder. I can't help but think "what all is on that recording, really?". I know what I get to hear but there are times when the information is never ending. I'm froze in the moment. Sticks are hitting the cymbals and they ring and then go rolling into the room. That's not real? No I'm sorry, maybe someones system can't play it but it's certainly there and I'm going after it. There might be a few recordings I question why of late, but isn't that really a reflection on me and not the recording? There are a few extremely simple recordings that I feel I have gotten to the bottom of, but even then that's questionable. Have I uncovered the absolute sound? Nah, I'm just beginning.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 6:41 am

recording signatures part 2

Before I get into recording signatures part 2, I want you guys to stop and look up a recording on the internet. Any popular recording from any style. Any recording where they give you the recording history. If you want to dig a little or call the studio I'll wait. Sleep 

Times up Laughing 

Now I want you to go up on the internet and google or whatever some other recording that has the recorded history of it. Time frame, studio or hall it was done in, miking, some kind of history that lets you in on the recordings particulars.
 Sleep 

Done?

Based on what you just read, tell me why and how you have a system that can play both, and give you 100% of the recorded info? The only way you could possibly think this, is if you had a system that did not use a vibrating signal as the audio language. Is anyone using a non-vibrating component? Remember electricity is vibrating. So you would have to have a system that ran off of something other than electricity. Movement is vibration, so not only does it not have electricity but it has no moving parts.

As you can see by reading up on the recordings they have plenty of vibrations involved, and vibration needs vibration to reproduce. Read your physic books, there is no other way. Music is vibration and the parts that play music must vibrate to play it. We all agree here or no? This isn't mg's thoughts on what if, this is fact or it's isn't fact.

In reproducing audio it is our job to create vibration and store it on something that can have the signal pulled back off of it through the means of vibration. Is this correct or not? Can you retrieve the signal without vibration? I bring this up with such vim and vigor because this makes the difference in ok sound and great sound. The question of "what is the greatest sounding system" is all about one thing. Is that system able to reproduce all the "vibration" in the recording. Is there anything other than vibration in the reproduction chain? Not if it travels.

As an audiophile who wishes to retrieve the greatest amount of signal possible you need to come to a crossroad and make it past the stop sign in order to move forward. You have to be willing to accept what is too much vibration and what is too little. Some of you are sitting with systems that are way over built. They may be the greatest workmanship on the planet but that doesn't mean they are not over built.

what is over built?

The answer to this goes back to the beginning. If your system can not play those two pieces of music you looked up and reproduce the full size the recording was done in and all the info on the recording and you can't make your system play it through tuning the vibrations in your system your system is over built. If you can go to a friends house and hear something in his system that is different than yours, and you can't make yours sound like that, your system is over built. Lets put it this way to shorten this. I'm not saying your system is bad, but I can say with a fair amount of confidence, if your system is stock from the factory the chances of that system traveling all that way and able to play something at a real space real time reproduction is something that at least I have never experienced. In fact for myself I have not heard a system come close that was still in it's orginal chassis.

So I wanted to get past that part before going any further.

Let's say you are past all that and have stripped your system down to the bone and have the tuning tools to get where you need to go. This is where I want to start. I don't want to back all the way up again cause you can read about this all over the tune and that's more of the beginning of tuning, when your still dealing with all the audiophile things floating around in the brain, and I want to get past that.

This is for guys ready to get down and dirty, are you with me? If your still in audiophile alley don't read this cause it will probably make you mad and thats not my intent.

This is between me and you and you don't have to share this with anyone. You and I both know that there are recordings you can put on right now and they won't sound so good. I want to tell you something, 100 to 1 it is not the recording. The codes that are on recordings are far more different from each other than any reviewer has ever said. In fact most reviewers have no clue how to tune in a recording. I don't know of any that do. That's not a put down on them, maybe they completely take apart the components like we do and tune them and have never told anyone. But I know no other way to come close to matching the vibratory codes on recordings other than tuning in the systems code to match the recorded code on the recording.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 7:14 am

recording signatures part 3

Stop what your doing right now and put on Abbey Road cut 10. Where are the crikets? No really, where are they?

Are the crickets where they were the last time you listened to this, or do they sound slightly different?

Hopefully they start outside your room on the right. If they start at your right speaker tell me.

Put on (since I'm listening to it now) the Doors, riders on the storm. Does the rain and thunder cover your whole stage?

I've got a few more, so get that system on.

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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 8:34 am

Hi Michael,

The crickets start at my right speaker then slowly move up and gradually goes behind right  speaker as it moves up to the front ceiling in an arc form then slowly back to the left speaker and slowly faded outside my left speaker.

Sound different from last time, it started outside my right speaker.

I don't have Doors album.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 7:12 pm

Hi Hiend001

Take a peek at this https://tuneland.forumotion.com/t66-abbey-road-experience . lets open the stage up a little.

other guys, come on, jump in and lets play
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 3:27 am

Hi guys

I wanted to do a lot of posting tonight but the wind keeps knocking out my service. So as soon as it settles down I get caught up thanks  Cool 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 11:11 pm

Hi guys, sorry for the delay in answers. I have the internet company coming out tomorrow to take a look.

be back with you soon  Sad 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeWed May 07, 2014 12:44 pm

You know when you spend this much time on the computer then it's gone, it feels like an eternity till it comes back up. I'm crossing my fingers at this point  Smile 

Ok, where were we Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeThu May 08, 2014 10:36 pm

been a busy week  Smile 

I've had Abbey Road on all week and about to change. I wanted to get a good read on what is going on cause it's getting time to make some swap outs and tuning movements. I also have a new amp staring me in the face and I either need to setup system two for real or replace the Sherwood which I hate to do cause things are so smooth right now.

Smooth is right, and the frogs on track 10 are huge as compared to when I first put this on. The crickets filled out nicely but those frogs. I can almost cast my fishing line in the pond. What is this going to be like with the new speakers? I've been curing the wood for a little while now and it's about time for a sanding and coat. I'm going to make 2 pairs, one out of Brazilian Pine and the other out of Music Ply. I might even make a third pair so I can test staining which some have been asking about.

I also have the bigger speakers here that I started but the .25" solid wood baffle board are being fussy and I might be forced to go with a specialty ply baffle board instead. Arrggg, but wood is wood and I have to respect that.

 Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeFri May 09, 2014 2:12 am

Relaxing  king 

Michael's System - Page 16 M211

Mendelssohn Bartholdy: The Complete Solo Concertos [Box set, Import]
Felix Mendelssohn (Composer), Lev Markiz (Conductor), Nieuw Sinfonietta Amsterdam (Orchestra) featuring, Isabelle van Keulen, Ronald Brautigam, Roland Pöntinen, Love Derwinger

Disc: 1  
1. I. Allegro Molto - Isabelle Van Keulen  
2. II. Andante - Isabelle Van Keulen  
3. III. Allegro - Isabelle Van Keulen  
4. Scherzo - Lev Markiz  
5. I. Allegro Con Fuoco - Isabelle Van Keulen  
6. II. Andante - Isabelle Van Keulen  
7. III. Allegretto Non Troppo-Allegro Molto Vivace - Isabelle Van Keulen

Michael's System - Page 16 M212
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeSat May 10, 2014 2:05 am

Hi Guys

I'm totally enjoying the hall on this CD tonight. The pictures do the recording justice. I've used Neumann's a lot so the sound feels right at home, with that warm texture added to the hall's echos, more like a harmonic blanket.


 Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeThu May 15, 2014 12:04 am

Sometimes

Sometimes the smallest adjustments do the biggest things. I love these blocks Exclamation 

I must be listening to the hall 20' behind me tonight, and it feels like the ceiling has raised even more.

The strings are so fat sounding, and very nice body. All I did was change CD's quick to check something then after a little time went back to this one and was going to come in to write but the hall when it started playing was so big I had to sit awhile. The drawer must have moved to a magical spot on the blocks cause I thought it was a pretty big stage before but this went huge.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeTue May 20, 2014 11:40 pm

Hi Guys

Well design week is over and Harold has left the building, miss him already  Sad 

Had some great fun though  Very Happy 

Now it's on to getting the new line of speakers going. The woodshop designer had some great ideas on looks and they fit in with my needs so this should be very nice. Picked out some drop dead gorgeous Music Ply the be mated with a special stained trim Alder (a low tone birch tree) wood. We listened to several trim pieces before choosing the tone of the Alder. I've been listening to this wood and now I get a chance to use it (exciting).

The models are being made. A mini monitor same size as the mini mod, made from this music ply combo. A slightly bigger monitor made from the Brazilian pine. But with a twist that I need to listen to, and if I like, it's in, if not back to the regular Brazilian Pine. It's a heat treatment applied to the surface of the pine. Can't wait to see and hear it.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeWed May 21, 2014 2:41 am

Very productive week!

Sounds like a nice line up that covers the bases.
The heat treatment sounds interesting. Oooh toasted Brazilian pine. TBP. What properties do you anticipate it will bring out?

The alder sounds cool. I have a piece that has been sitting around and have been debating if I should cut down into blocks to mess with until I get the LTR.
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PostSubject: Re: Michael's System   Michael's System - Page 16 Icon_minitimeWed May 21, 2014 4:05 pm

Hi Toledo

A very productive week  Smile  I'm bushed  Sleep is in my future.

I'm kinda like a little kid at christmas time waiting. When I do the curing of the Brazilian pine I do some sun baking during part of the process. I take it outside during the extreme heat hours and cook it for maybe 1 hour a day. I'm hoping this heat treatment does this same kind of thing and even more, on the surface of the pine. Picture a steak, crispy on the outside and as you cut in it goes from cooked to barely heated in the very center, and you can see the gradual change in color. With the Brazilian and Argentine pine I have found this baking to give some pretty great sound. While at the woodshop the cheif designer was talking about a paticular look, but my mind was thinking back to some of my experiementing from years ago, and the two came together to make a lot of sense to me. We will see, but through this either way I think I have the thought of taking the curing maybe even a step further with this type of grain structure, and I feel more comfortable when I see others doing it too.

The Alder has been circling my listening plate for a while, and I'm about to add it to my list if I hear a couple more characters I'm hunting for in combos. Bigger pieces scare me a little but in small doses I think it may have a pretty nice flavor. I would recommend baking it pretty good so it doesn't get one-note-ish. Let me know what you hear.

 Smile
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