| Michael's System | |
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+27Sonic.beaver hcooper99 ChrisS JC Carter lll allboutdasound jarret jonson rodneyJ mostly classics lefthanded David Harper Drewster tjbhuler Obb rotelguy Hiend001 sails MGA tmsorosk Toledo garp tune trainee Michael Green Robert Harrison kimA jimmyblue yikes Bill333 31 posters |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:46 am | |
| Took a couple of pictures while listening tonight. | |
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jarret jonson
Posts : 1 Join date : 2016-02-01
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:38 pm | |
| Hi Michael, These are your speakers above? Like the look I finally got to hear a pair of your speakers visiting a friend in Florida. WOW He played me two pair. First was Avalon then yours. No comparison . Although the Avalon had their virtues they sounded fake compared to yours. Why are there not more reviews on your speakers? thanks | |
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rotelguy
Posts : 115 Join date : 2015-03-03
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:00 pm | |
| Cool speakers MG Looks like planar tweeters. more more more please | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:34 pm | |
| Well my ears are being blessed with huge stages tonight downstairs I'd love to write about it if I could get out of my chair Yes, these speakers are my design. I've named them the "TomTom" because the first thing I played on them were drum solos and I was so impressed with their inner drum air clarity. The planar tweeter you see is the third tweeter I have approved for designing with. Not sure but think I might be moving away from the D-27 because of the lastest way I've been doing my tweeter mounting and voicing. Like I said though "not sure". I'm trying to give all the drivers a fair shake. Something you might find unique in my TomTom SW-12BP setup is I'm using no binding posts. The speakers are hardwired. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:56 am | |
| In other news Just got done baking some cable up to be sent to Coop for making IC's, Speaker and power wire. This will be the second nature cured batch of the year. As usual I'll be cooking wire all spring summer and fall outside. Was lucky this winter with the weather so was able to go back and forth from out to inside. A little bit more tricky in the winter but summers a breeze. A breeze except for the cracking of the seal. This process takes for ever and you have to know what to feel for. Unfortunately that makes me the main guy to sit there and go through about 3000 ft a year, this year probably more. I've already done over a thousand ft. I also cook the ends and binding posts. Everything I do gets it's fair amount of time in the sun Coop is back in La Crosse so in a couple of days you guys can check on your custom orders, maybe Wednesday or so. Oh, also wanted to talk about the TomTom's wood and voicing. The front baffle is 3/8" poplar. The sides are 5/8" Brazilian Pine, tops and bottoms 1/4" poplar and the back 1/4" magic wood. The Tuning Bar yet to be made, probably maple, cherry or birch (have to listen more before choosing). The finish is something different that I have been playing with. It's 3 coats of my mix but then one coat of instrument lacquer topped with another coat of my clear coat. You might think "what something other than water based " Well kinda but with a twist. After my first 3-5 coats (depending on take) I put on the lacquer and quickly bake it, then let it sit for a day or two (again depending), then I hit it with another 1-2 coats of my water base. What this does is seal the lacquer's oils. It gives a funky cool look cause the lacquer never really makes it to the wood, but the sound gives off the virtues of both the water and lacquer base minus the dull sound of the lacquer. Of course still in the works but the strings sound so good. Piano notes have great strike and refrain. Very earthy sounding. I'm about to finish off a sub like this so we'll see what happens. hope everyone has their weekend cued up and sounding good | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:01 am | |
| tonight's listening | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:27 am | |
| Listening to several pieces of music tonight while breaking in a new platform downstairs. here's one Here in the writing room, my cable music is set to classic rock For some reason the cable music has been playing a lot more live or bootleg versions of the hits, which has been pretty cool, while posting pictures of Harold at AXPONA. Was happy to hear Bill was at the show. Hope he post a report | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:52 am | |
| Don't know how you guys do it It's been monsoon off and on for a week now and I can feel it working it's way into my systems yuk It's done a number on me as well. Having a body that is use to practically no moisture in the air and then hit by this much humidity is a real change. Everything sounds like it's been turned slightly slower in pace and drags. Last night though I had some fun with this playing around with things. Started with "the wall" and ended up with "making movies". The sound, for those who have had a lot of experience with signatures, was like going from old B&W 801's a week ago to Apogee Diva's today. Hopefully you don't confuse this with new B&W which have a completely different sound than that one particular timeframe in the 801. Here are the 2 models I had before loosing interest. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:21 pm | |
| Moving along in my listening, I'm now playing The hall is huge | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 02, 2016 3:30 pm | |
| This last year has been all about designing the next level of products mainly thanks to Coop helping me get settled and the shops supplying me with the starting foundations needed. In the past some of my own craftsmanship has suffered do to my lack of abilities in the wood working depart. I love to voice but the woodworking has been fairly monster looking at times. I can laugh at myself for the attempts but I can also see the benefits of trying. I don't think I would be able to get those last few harmonics out of the music if I wouldn't be doing some of the start from scratch learning curves. As the listening takes place the WOW factor is some what of a shock hearing things I'm not sure the industry of speaker making has ever experienced before. A large part of this is do to the fact that most companies look at killing instead of bringing to life. Above is my latest attempt at making a speaker that is me, with me as the woodworker through the final coat. What's interesting is they actually look pretty darn snappy. I'm sure when these go to Nevin for production they will be even snappier but not bad for the old fart Some things that are cool about these for me anyway 1) no binding posts, the wire goes directly from the amp to drivers. The only thing that touches the wire is a super thin wood membrane on the back of the speaker. 2) as I said above, the back of the speaker is a thin free resonant membrane less than 1/8" thick. This back panel is dado-ed in place 3) the sides top and bottom are dado-ed, horseshoe stapled and glued together. Brazilian pine 4) the baffle board is exotic poplar. I won't tell you the secret to this, but it's pretty cool. Oh and it's glued on, no nails screws or dado. 5) the tuning bar is different than the others I have done and uses a direct threaded screw instead of inserts 6) on this particular model the driver is direct coupled but the screw mounts are slightly about the surface of the baffle board. There's more to tell but I'll leave that for another time. | |
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allboutdasound
Posts : 3 Join date : 2016-01-01
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 02, 2016 5:03 pm | |
| Michael These are beautiful I looked at your subwoofers above and thought they may sound great, but? Now I realize you were giving us a look at your madness. Are the speakers posted for your ears only or for sale? A Michael Green original would be tempting indeed. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 02, 2016 6:04 pm | |
| Hi bout Sorry about that scare Sometimes I show the proto version and forget to show the progress or finished toy. Here's the same woofer a couple days later after playing with my instrument finish. Keep in mind these are my version not the factories. I might have 3 or 4 versions of the same product at different listening stages for me to compare. | |
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rotelguy
Posts : 115 Join date : 2015-03-03
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 02, 2016 6:18 pm | |
| Hi Michael WOW! Nice Job MG We'll need to stop by . Was wondering what you were going to make out of the wood we saw there. These are gorgeous! Also on the SW12's did you decide on feet? | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm | |
| Hi Guys Listening to.... ....in #3 tonight I'll be excited to see what people think of my toys. For sale Sure, if your lucky | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sat May 07, 2016 5:18 pm | |
| While finishing up my burning in of Bare Essence Type1 in Rm#3, getting it ready to cut for length, I've been exploring my lazy listening and more serious. Below is a pic of lazy listening for me. Took me a while to find the chair as you know, then a couple of days ago decided on the foot stool (this does not always stay). Next was the pillow, this was a tougher job, and forced me to look around the place to see if I could figure out a way to make this work. Not that I want some of the extra stuff there when I'm doing ultimate listening but this room is a mix of sound + lifestyle as much as possible. I'll show my fix, which was pretty interesting since it is not in the room at all. well it is in the acoustical space If you go up the stairs to the top landing of the second floor and turn around you see this. | |
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rotelguy
Posts : 115 Join date : 2015-03-03
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sat May 07, 2016 5:26 pm | |
| Hi Michael, could you remark on the blocks? | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Sun May 08, 2016 4:33 pm | |
| Happy Mother's Day Jim, hope you guys have a great day I'll get to the blocks but first want to give a quick walk through from downstairs to up. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 09, 2016 12:26 am | |
| BTW, 3 great recordings I've been enjoying. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 09, 2016 12:58 am | |
| Ok, back to the blocks. Here's the thing about free resonance, you can make any sound you want. The more resonant the more flexible. Also the more resonant the more dynamic range. This is why I design completely free resonance till I get to the place where I start to build in the adjustments. The Tom Tom proto you see in my recent pictures has 4 of the 6 walls 1/4" thick. This means the transfer into the stands with spikes is extremely full range and very sensitive to voicing. The Sub is all Brazilian Pine also very resonant. Audiophile dampener types are freaking out reading this but let me show you some things. As you guys know every recording sounds different from the rest, but the more sensitive the resonant response the higher the level of dynamic range response. I'm not talking about efficiency here but the end game range between the bottom and the top of the dynamics. For example the system in rm#3 right now with a good low to high dynamic range recording, on my smallest pre-setting volume (just barely on), is so dynamic you won't even hear the music upstairs yet the bass thuds my writing room. I'm not talking about the neighbor blasting things or a guy with horns. Nope as you can see, this is a simple speaker built like a thin walled musical instrument. That same dynamic range your use to hearing with an acoustical guitar is what these speakers do. The selection of exotic blocks I have are perfect for voicing the Tom Tom speakers and Sub. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Tue May 10, 2016 1:22 am | |
| Time to block and puck a recording. Over this evening I'm going to pick a recording and do a basic block tune-up using the proto Tom Tom speakers. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Tue May 10, 2016 2:31 am | |
| Well, I lied, again Ok I'll get to the blocks but once again for the millionth time I started to listen to the reference I chose Rickie Lee Jones (everyone has this recording)... and heard stuff right away I wanted to change. Don't get me wrong it sounded pretty darn good but you know how it is when you know things must be changed if using for a referencing gig. First my foot stand pillow stuck out like a sore thumb so out it went. Things changed a lot, but I heard something else. I thought "well gonna have to do some tuning". I stood up and started to walk around the system deciding where to start so I had a beginning place to reference from, then saw it "are you telling me I left an extra LTR Block sitting behind the Luxman" If I had a brain I'd be dangerous I removed the extra block sitting on the back of the amp platform and everything opened up. Duh moment then laughing at myself I realize I should do this right So now I need to decide how much tuning I want to do before I start comparing the blocks on this recording. I can hear some platform things I want to do right off the bat. | |
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Sonic.beaver
Posts : 2227 Join date : 2009-09-18
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Tue May 10, 2016 8:32 am | |
| Yes Michael -- bring on the Tuning Pucks! This will be a new experience to compare to how you used Tune with the PZCs, SAMs and racks. Where Michael he could do things like bring the vocals right up to listener, alternatively pushing the the vocal track back till it was right at the front wall by using his Mighty Crescent Wrench to change the tension on a tunable rack shelf by 1/16 of a turn.
Here we have a New Approach Tunable system where there are no tunable racks, fewer tunable points utilising the Tuning Bolts and so on. Looking excitedly to the Tuning-Maestro at work.
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Tue May 10, 2016 9:17 pm | |
| Hi Sonic I'm glad to see you on my thread . Sometimes I wish people would ask some of their questions on my thread because when so I can go to my systems, listen and think about the answers. Saying this, let me shift gears and go listen. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Tue May 10, 2016 11:54 pm | |
| Sonic said "Here we have a New Approach Tunable system where there are no tunable racks, fewer tunable points utilising the Tuning Bolts and so on. Looking excitedly to the Tuning-Maestro at work." mg "Tuning-Maestro" I like that, but must be honest. The tools and music itself are the teachers and I am the student. I'll also confess, I wish I was in a tunable room using PZC's but it's good for me to go back and try to do as much as I can using the tools I've been working on. It's important to note that in rm#3 I do have a SAM wall directly behind me which saves the day. Instead of a rack I'm using 6 Tuning Platforms and will be one more for the pre power supply. Top tuning will come but we decided to work up to this instead of jumping in right away. All this said, it's amazing what can be done with the tools I have. The RT Pillows are simply shocking to use and I really can't imagine how audiophiles can be a part of this hobby without them as starters. I'll be re-designing the left front corner of the room but am pleased how well this sounds with the Square and XLT covered with cardstock. I'm using these mid and higher up with BP Tuning Boards down below. The right corner is different because of the stairs. I've been fortunate so far that I've been able to tune this area. The space behind the SAM, kitchen, soldering station, upstairs, closet, and downstairs bathroom have all played a part and must be added to my tool list, along with my wood blinds covering the window. back to Rickie Lee Jones Another note for folks following this. I'm not DJ hopping but using this specific recording as my source. My listening is not being guided by the system playing the music, but instead voicing in this particular recording, something that I feel is so important It's a must for me to be able to listen this way. For my own listening being one that was shaped by making recordings and my unique job of tuning using this method is not only able to get me closer to the origin but I also enjoy being able to view recordings from many different points of view. I went into this thinking I would just focus on one song "easy money" but that went out the window as I started playing and enjoying the journey of the whole LP. preparing the system I pointed out earlier that after playing a few seconds I knew I wanted to redo the system some in order to give me a starting place. I could hear first of all that the platforms were not working completely in harmony with the space. How do I know this? When your furniture is out of tune with the space you can hear certain frequency ranges shout at you. You might think it is the speakers or electronics but furniture placement has a specific sound to it. You can learn these sounds by simply tapping on your furniture, components or any other object in the room, then look for that sound being the sound that is doing the shouting at you. If you learn to listen to objects big and small you'll begin to feel them in your space. Keep in mind that every recording wants to spread and frequency shouting is a sign that something somewhere is clustering up. We've all played recordings that seem to almost sound mono. This is a tip off to something in your room being in the wrong place. This can be happening anywhere in your room, but when looking around start in the area where you are hearing the shout come from. In this case for me, I moved the equipment platforms a little closer to me, the rug also and some little adjustments and I was there. As soon as I made this move, I could hear that the crossover/amp didn't like sitting anymore on the amp platform. How did I know this? When the Amp Platform was moved I could hear things open up but also get a little cloudy. This told me the Luxman wanted it's own platform. I took the Crossover-amp and put it behind the Luxman platform and could hear this was the right direction but the crossover didn't want to sit on the floor only. I went to my closet and grabbed a Mini Platform and placed it under the Yung. The stage came back to life but now the mini platform was struggling in pitch and tone. Thus the blocks As you can see one thing plays off of the next and this is why I want all my tools to be as free resonant and flexible as possible. For example if my speakers weren't tunable I would have probably been playing around forever trying to find balance, but because they are built to interact I can hear the different parts playing off of each other and it makes it a lot easier to hear what part or piece might want to be adjusted. Playing with the blocks under the crossover/amp now became a bunch of fun I could play with different blocks and their placement under the mini platform till the cows came home changing the recording like I was adjusting faders and effects on my studio board. I started with the buckeye (the whitish one) and was able to go many different places all with this one tune. I could hear the tone of the Tom Tom speakers and sub change in character so much that it would be hard to guess they were the same speakers I started with. Again "free resonance". So that's where things are now and next I will do more listening thinking about the LTR Blocks under the equipment or perhaps slivers under a platform or two. Back to the comment Sonic made for a second about the rack vs other furniture tunes. I don't think it would be fair to say the platforms are less tuning than the rack. I look at it like each platform is equal to one rack if that makes sense. | |
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Michael Green Admin
Posts : 3858 Join date : 2009-09-12 Location : Vegas/Ohio/The Beach
| Subject: Re: Michael's System Mon May 16, 2016 4:36 am | |
| While playing with the blocks I've also been getting ready this woofer for room#2. | |
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