Tuning My Musical Journey

Hi Michael

I'll put the MTDs back on the FS-DRTs. Do you hear any difference between 3 and 4 MTDs/spikes under the FS-DRTs?

Sonic drilled and threaded 4 holes in the bases of the FS-DRTs but with 4 MTDs it was very difficult to get equal down pressure on all equally. I am considering drilling a fifth threaded hole and using 3 MTDs per FS-DRT.

And do you prefer MTDs 2 front (reflective side)/1 rear or 1 front/2 rear?

Sonic

Greetings Michael and Zonees

Sonic saw an LP of recitation poems by Lewis Carroll including the Hunting of the Snark. Buying it I will. Apart from being a literary being (that Sonic is), I find the recordings of the spoken word an extremely powerful, an even more powerful test of a loudspeaker and system tonal capability than recordings of people singing  

Of all live sounds, the female and male spoken voice is something we are most familiar with. We are exposed to it all the time in our families, workplace, shops, eateries and so on.  Singing voices we encounter less frequently, so Sonic's view is we are most alert to colouration of spoken voices through our systems because we got a hard-wired reference in our heads.

What do I hear?  Sonic hears many things since I have used recordings of the spoken word as one way to assess my system and other devices.  The Magneplanar 1.5QRs have their flaws but voices speaking are reproduced about OK with a slight colouration in the “thickness” zone.

Now I am hearing very much more expensive systems that make male voices sound like the microphone recording them was placed in a box filled with cotton wool, sounding muffled and devoid of ambience. Other speakers – often certain British mini monitors with metal tweeters -- make the male voice thin and give female voices an "articulation sting" that is irritating in the extreme.

Yet these same speakers when playing music with singers start to mask these flaws especially if the listening test started with music (instrumental and vocal) first then went to the spoken word.  Sonic’s view is therefore to test speakers reliably do it with a good recording of a male and female voice speaking, not singing.  If the speaker + system sounds obnoxious and coloured then go no further, leave the room. It will be a turkey certainly.

What has Sonic done this week? I have tried to advance slowly just like Michael urged.

This is what my system looks like now – Sonic’s “nearer-field” set up.



Good Zonees will notice there is almost no toe-in of the panels like Michael suggested to Sonic. And this is sounding pretty good. The curtain of sound is straight across the width of the plane of the speakers with absolutely no concave or convex curvature. Bass is full, lots of detail, decent dynamics, sweeter treble plus nice ambience and there is depth which is something that Sonic thinks little of which I can hear even when not looking for it! Plus sound coming forward towards Sonic ahead of the speaker plane.

Sonic is to back using the AAB1x1 cones under the FS-PZCs but they now spike onto MW squares (2.5” x 2.5” x ¼”) that now sit directly on the Brazilian Pine boards rather than on an intervening Low Tone Redwood block.



This is the central FS-PZC and Zonees will see that the FS-DRTs that flank the central PZC that is the subject of this picture are sitting directly on the floor as originally designed and not with any cones (AAB1x1 or MTDs) used.

The number of Low Tone Redwood blocks in Sonic’s system now form a Greek Chorus creating an amount of harmonic richness in the forward zone.  These Low Tone Redwood blocks are doing their job and they with Brazilian Pine and MW appear to be working together    

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Most of the time I prefer two in the front and one in the back, but it's surprising how many different sounds you can get with different combos.

Greetings Michael and Zonees

Each time Michael gives advice, Sonic gets a little bug-eyed and will go try what Mr Green suggests because he is almost always right. If what he says doesn’t work, then often exploration might lead to new understanding of the Tune, my room and equipment.

Right now Sonic has Shakuhachi music (Nonesuch LP) on the ‘table. Next up will be string quartets by Juan Cristomono Arriaga, the “Spanish Mozart” (Musical Heritage Society LP) and then Robert Muczynski’s “Dance movements”, Ernest Bloch’s “Four Episodes for Chamber Orchestra” and Paul Creston’s “Two Choric Dances” by the Arizona Chamber Orchestra (Robert Hull, Cond – Laurel Record LP). And viol works by Christopher Simpson (1615 – 1669) – Accent CD.

As Sonic was listening I pondered the idea of “settling”, how in my system some tunes and hardware like Brazilian Pine, the Shutters and such from Michael give their best after “settling”, yet how at other times some of my attempts at tuning have been initially promising but went sour after “settling”, or sometime a long time later found to be a dud after a change.

How does this concept of “settling” relate to the wider audiophile experience?

Sonic is of the view that every piece of audio equipment and system will settle over time. This settling is the system coming to its true, equilibrated state. Whenever something is added, or changed in an audio system a certain degree of system of dis-equilibrium occurs, then over time the system adjusts to a new balanced level at a different and most stable energy and resonance level. Or “settles” if you choose to use the word.

This state is the real sound of the system in its entirety. Anything before it reaches this point is the system in “dynamic transit ®” and not the true long-term sound of the system. This will occur in all systems, Tuned or unturned, budget or super high-end audiophile.

Sonic’s Theory

Sonic’s theory is this explains a experience I have commonly observed among high and very high-end audiophiles I know. They are constantly changing their equipment or adding upgrade/tweaks of some sort. Sonic had the privilege to attend many audiophiles’ hosted “new gear introduction/launch” cocktail evenings where everyone there (including Sonic) have, perhaps under the influence of the hospitality and the wine, truly liked the sound….then a couple of months later, I bump into the same audiophile who utters a familiar “my system sounds like [@#$$%^]!”.

Sonic normally asks “what did you do?”…and the reply is normally “Nothing!” They then say this or that piece of gear is really not as good as the Stereophile/ Absolute Sound reviews and the cycle starts again -- a different DAC, tube brand, cartridge, cables, footer, amp, tonearm, speaker, tweak is purchased.

This is followed by the excitement and envy of everyone….followed by another reversal of opinion and more purchases. On and on. Of course the various audio proprietors are not objecting.

Possible explanation of phenomenon: systems are dynamic and over the long term, there is a “sound of equilibrated dynamic ®” that every system eventually reaches if left alone and this is the real steady state system of the room/equipment. This will show all the combined effects of the room/system like damping, room effects and the equipments’ real sound. If the system is not Tuned but built to high-end principles with heavily damped chasses, 10 lb faceplates, cabinets of exotic materials and thick cables with sound tailoring boxes the “settled” sound will be dead, sterile and lifeless. Often the sound of the system in an unstable, “shaken” state with a new piece of equipment or tweak or room treatment added might sound more dynamic and enjoyable even if it is partly driven by the excitement of the new.

What these listeners find disappointing after a few months is the “settled” sound which, by RoomTune standards, is a system that is fighting itself. This also explains why some audiophiles I know do a monthly plug cleaning ritual. They unplug all cables, connectors and mains, clean and polish the contacts and reset and claim it is the removal of oxidation that makes the difference. Sonic did this studiously too. Now I know it is the breaking and making the contact that sets the system on the settling path again which makes the system sound different.

A parallel idea might be the concept of “burn-in” within the audiophile fan community. Whatever words are used, this is something real. Some say they cannot hear this but these people might have systems so fossilized that their resolution are not flexible enough to allow the changes of settling to be heard. “Burn-in” is an empirical observation made by discerning listeners who have observed a real phenomenon but may lack the framework (the Tune) and Michael’s vocabulary to describe, to give sense to what is really happening – which is “settling” in the way Michael explains it apart from physical changes like speaker surrounds loosening up and capacitors forming.

Looking at Sonic’s own experience: why am I constantly tuning for nearly a decade now? The number of times on this site Sonic has said I have unlocked the Tune in my system only to backtrack. So it might be the same with the high-end audiophiles I know – the whole thing is preventing a “settle” by whatever means – change a $10,000 cartridge, cable or use some exotic box that harmonises the ions in the room, or even the placement of a piece of paper under one of the equipment feet – anything as long as the system given a shake.

But then how to we get off the wheel? The fact may well be that we can’t.

Just like we will have to tune our violin each time we take it out to play music. We have to adjust the tension of our bow. All this changes each time we play. You can take a tension meter and measure and duplicate your bow tension but the same tension will sound different day by day. This will be needed for as long as we play the instrument.

For audio, Tune the room and system by Michael’s methods as far as our domestic conditions allow and at least the system parts and room will not fight itself. From that point let things settle and all should be musical and occasional little shakes will keep things in a dynamic state. Alternatively you could do what Michael does by tuning the system to each CD, playing through one CD for days and tuning to explore the world captured in the recording. In that approach the adjustments are continuous and the long-cycle settling doesn't occur because the equilibrium changes with the next CD being explored.

Just an idea…no further harm done….now to hear Gabriel Guillemain’s (1705 – 1750) “Conversations Galantes et Amusantes” Sonate no. 1 en sol majeur and Sonate no. 6 en la minuer (Ensemble Instrumental Jean-Rene Gravoin -- Decca France “Grand Siecle” LP).

Sonic

Greetings Michael and Zonees

One thing Sonic often tries is to duplicate Michael’s tuning ideas with DIY alternatives sometimes using his products or substitutes.  An example of the latter was when, a long time ago, I made Shutters out of cardboard and stuck them to my walls and ceiling to test where the real Sound Shutters from Mr Green should go when Sonic’s order of them arrived.

More recently, I have seen how Michael tuned circuit boards by propping them up on the points of fibre/resitone spikes that were mounted on Brazilian Pine or other wood.

I had spare pieces of FS-DT wood, glued them into a platform, mounted resitone spikes in them and set the Quicksilver preamp circuit board on the points.  The points of the upward facing resitone spikes were set so the tips did not touch any circuit board trace. Like this:





After the recent tunes especially running of the MG1.5QRs at their new position, my Tune Instinct pointed this out as a blockage source (one of the blockages, not The blockage source).  I removed the contraption and set the preamp with the circuit board resting on four MW blocks.



This is much better.  The whole sound was more free and the bass opened up (but may not be more extended).  

Also along the way Sonic revised the idea mooted of MW over Low Tone Redwood (see page 13 of this thread and my post of April 17), with settling, it caused a loss of energy in the bass and upper bass.

Michael, does this agree with what you hear? I got this thought from what you told Hiend001 about the effect of MW in some circumstances.

Sonic is now on a quest for more bass. I want a lot more low end energy and extension but without having to resort to subwoofers. Its about foundation and impact.  My system has that audiophile tight bass and not floating enough even though on 1/3 octave pink noise tones the extension is meets Magneplanar MG1.5QR specs when measured at the listening chair. Sonic recently read REG – Robert E Greene – saying that for reasons of foundation, a system with a little too much bass is more listenable and preferable than one with too little (Sonic hopes I am quoting the good Dr. correctly).  Think Sonic should concentrate on this now.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

That was a pretty cool experiment. I saw the picture before reading and said "what the heck is that". I couldn't figure it out

I think what I'm going to need to do is play around with the bottom end and see if I can come up with a couple more wood choices for you and Hiend1 to play with. Also maybe some different levels of finish.

Be alot easier if you guys lived down the street

Greetings Zonees!

Sonic was in a concert hall listening to a performance of ensemble music (acoustic, unamplified) and used that time to both enjoy musick and to compare the sound of live music against audio.

Learnt a lot of things but here is one:

How do percussion instruments activate hall echo in a real hall contrasted with what is reproduced by hifi systems:

In this hall Sonic was in, the tympani went "BAM" and the predominant echo/reverb was expanding across the width of the hall - about maybe 40 ft to my left and right (I was 7 rows from the front and at the centre) -- with very little front to back echo. Eyes closed the reverb with instruments told me there was a lot of space to my right and left, and this gave me a sense of how wide/large the hall was.

With audio systems I have never heard this sense of ambience and echo signature to the distant Left and Right of me.

At its best in my semi-tuned system, the ambient and echo comes from behind me like I had rear ambience speakers (which Sonic does not have). With high-end audio gear I have heard, Sonic most often hears the echo at the front wall behind the vocalists and instruments which is rather wrong.

For those with fully Tuned systems (like Hiend001, Bill333 et al), I wonder if your systems do the ambient/echo reproduction 50 ft to either side of you if the recording captured it? From how Michael described hi system playing the Abbey Road Sun King crickets, this might something the Tune can give.

Sonic

Greetings Michael and Zonees

As Sonic was going through the internet for some information on planar speakers, I came across a pix of the venerable Magneplanar Tympanis but with an oddity (Sonic would have posted the picture with a source credit but I cannot locate it no matter what combination of search terms I use….ghostly) – the plate with the speaker cable binding posts were facing the listener.  

Hmmm…thinks Sonic. This means this owner of the venerable Magneplanar Tympani 1c or 1d is listening to the Tympanis not as designer Jim Winey intended.

For what Sonic is writing about, one needs to know the construction of a Magneplanar. There is a steel plate with lots of holes in it and to this the numerous magnets (the MAGNE) are mounted and in front of that there is a thin mylar sheet with wires glued on (the PLANAR).  Simple….we pass an electrical signal down the wires and the mylar sheet moves back and forth, then you hear sound.

The Magneplanar is a doublet design.  That is an equal amount of sound goes out the front and back of the panel. A dipole as some call it.

The question is: what is the acoustic effect of the perforated steel plate which is also referred to as the magnetic pole plate?  Should you listen with the unobstructed mylar sheet/diaphragm facing you or should the perforated steel plate face you? Jim Winey (inventor of Magneplanars) sold the Magneplanars with the perforated steel plate/magnetic pole plate originally facing the listener and he is supposed to have said the metal plate is acoustically transparent.

So the first Magneplanars like the 1-U, the Tympanis, the SMGa, MG2, MG3 and such were manufactured so that the perforated metal plate faced the listener.  Somewhere along the way, the speaker was sold turned around where the perforated steel plate faced away from the listener.  All the new Magneplanars like the MG1.5 QRs, 1.6s, 3.6s plus the new 1.7 and 3.7s are this way. In the case of the 20 series, the bass section is push-pull, that is it has magnets and magnetic pole plates front and back of the diaphragm. Some of the early Magnaplanars were push-pull too but Sonic has not researched which were such.

Seeing the Tympanis turned around in that picture triggered a number of things that Sonic has read on this topic from various sources on the internet but mostly from Magneplanar modifier Peter Gunn.

Apparently the Magneplanars when having the unobstructed mylar facing the listener, these speakers sound more “high-end hi-fi”, with a more peaky midrange which unbalances the sound.

So after reading about the benefits of listening with the magnetic pole plate facing the listener – better depth of field, less beaming, a smoother midrange, a more coherent and strongly defined bass range – Sonic thought last weekend “this is easy to do”.  

So my MG1.5QRs were turned around so the perforated metal pole plate faces Sonic, the Left and Right speakers swapped so the tweeter orientation stays the same:





I also followed the teachings of Peter Gunn and gave the panels a small tilt back (using 1/8 inch MW shims). Sonic then used a plumb blob to measure the mid height of the tilted panel to see if the speaker’s average distance from the front wall had decreased. It had, so the panels were moved forward and the average distance of the panel along its height is the same as before.  Given that the amount of change is 1 inch at the mid-height and 2 inches at the top, this is a distance that could be audible.  Certainly it will be ultra-audible to those who think a 1/8 inch change in speaker position is noticeable.

So on with listening

Over this week, with intense run-in, I don’t want to go back to having the mylar facing the listening spot. Sonic got an excellent sound, in many respects what I been tuning for.  The low end and the midrange came into a good balance. There is no loss in treble even though everything is going through a metal plate with holes. The shoutiness at high playback level that I blamed on the hard surfaces of my room is now gone. A CD I own of a soprano voice that Sonic could never play at anything more than background volume now sounds correct and no longer screechy.

I can hear more ambience behind me…still not enough to the sides 50, 60…100 ft out to the right and left of me like in real live orchestral music. But true too that there is now more height in the ambience and a small increase in the sense of “width-ambience”. The bass is also better which anchors the sound (could do with more of this though).

Might the perforated metal plate (or magnetic pole plate) of the Magneplanars in their original configuration have an effect of presenting steadier pressure wave launch to the listener, while letting the rear wave be turbulent because after it interacted with the pressure zones in the front of the room, any turbulence and ringing from the mylar diaphragm will be negated when it reached the listener’s ears?

Turning the MG1.5QRs to have the magnetic pole plate facing me was a big change for the better (no exaggeration, Sonic is now speaking carefully)….why did Magneplanar turn the panels so the diaphragm face the listener and the pole plate to face the front wall in the first place -- could it be something to market to the High End audiophiles who think an unobstructed diaphragm will be more “transparent”?  

From what Sonic heard, this is not true.  The “transparency” you get with the mylar facing you sounds to me like a midrange colouration….whatever the reason may be, Mr Winey cannot go back no more to magnetic pole plate facing the listener now….

For Sonic, this mod ranks among one of the best I have done in recent memory. Gives, in addition to the benefits I have listed, excellent transient response like the efficiency of the speakers has increased by a number of dBs. The imaging of instrumental position of the orchestras, quartets and ensembles Sonic listens to is now correct.

For this whole week as the system was put through settling, the sound has been so good that I have not felt the urge to tweak anything. Sonic thinks that this Tune followed by my order for T3 speaker cables from Mr Green might give me what I have been waiting for from the Tune.  

Sonic

Hello Zonees

A couple of days more....and yes this is sounding really nice

Forgot to mention it -- Sonic also reversed polarity of the speaker cables in addition to maintaining the normal Quasi-ribbon tweeter orientation, giving the panels a tilt back with a MW shim and ensuring the distance of the panels (at mid-height) to the front wall is reset to be the same as before.

Sonic

Greetings Zonees

Sonic has sent the payment to Harold for the T3 cables so here we go for the next adventure. This tune I hope will get the phase and the bass right which might have been compromised by the use of split T2s – that is one single solid-core wire per pole – to drive the Magneplanar MG1.5QRs. What is next for Sonic’s system is 3x solid core wires per pole, which is T3.

In the meantime the Magneplanar MG1.5QRs are settling in from the recent tune of turning them around so the perforated magnetic pole piece faces the listening position.

With the passing week the soundstage is appearing to be getting bigger and the bass more authoritative. There is less midrange glare and hence room glare plus a sense of improved coherence which might be a consequence of reducing the midrange beaminess. Woodworker Peter Gunn is right about the Magneplanars.

From what I understand my cables should ship around the end of next week. Sonic has also bought a mains connector strip from Michael with 8 US outlets so my entire system can be powered from one connector strip and one wall outlet instead of two as is now. I might double up the mains leads feeding the connector strip so Live is one T2 Michael Green cable and Neutral another T2.

That’s a story for two weeks down the road.

Sonic

While Sonic waits for the cables and the mains distribution unit, mostly listening to musick which is now good enough thru my system to get me away from thinking "what need I to make this better/more correct?"

Latest on Sonic's TT is this an LP of rare and little known works by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart -- small pieces for transverse flute and harpsichord. They are well crafted melodic pieces that are entertaining and "nice".....then when you realize this stuff was written by an 8-year old kid....

This week I might try a couple of experiments to utilize the number of "floor coupling" devices that have built up in my collection of tuning gear. Might try to use as much of this collected items from Mr Green, mustn't let things like the Harmonic Feet of two sizes, some left over AAB1x1 cones be unused. Nearly all the Harmonic Springs have been gainfully employed in the system.

Sonic has probably found the optimal coupling devices for nearly piece of gear in this systems aside from the FS-DRTs that tune the center Pressure Zone of the system. Right now the mounting board sits on the floor.

I could improve the coupling by raise the FS-DRTs on Harmonic Feet or AAB1x1 cones resting on MW pieces. This experiment is more to learn what this might do for Sonic's education in tuning and coupling things.

Right now the focus is excellent and after the recent tunes the bass has extended and freed up. Everything is actually beginning to work in phase. Sonic likes this. If I am greedy, Sonic might want a bit more bass in terms of extension and weight (but I should wait for the T3 speaker cables to give their voice because Sonic has a feeling the T3s will make the biggest difference I might imagine) and a little more attack in the upper bass range like in real life you can hear a bow "bounce" on a cello in a fast passage? Easy to hear in a live concert but hardly ever even in the best of audiophile systems. At most you hear celli and basses growling away nicely but that attack in the bow stroke or plucks -- that is rare and defines reality.

Sonic

Becoming master of your system

Before I get into my thoughts let me say, thinking outside the box is perhaps the biggest tweak we have. Learning our systems from the gutts out gives us such an advantage in our listening because we are discovering the how's & why's of audio in our unique personal setting.

There could be a few guesses on my part as to why this stroke of genius overtook Sonic, but my first thought is, Sonic now that you have done this can you hear this change from walking around the speaker? I would imagine now that you have heard this sound difference, you are able to describe each side of the maggies as they sit there playing. Meaning listening on one side then walking around to the back.

the difference

The explaination could be as simple as the front wall and the mylar getting along better than the front wall and metal combo. Quite possibly the pressures zones behind the speakers ended up missing something as well the front of the speaker with the old setting. My mind of course always goes into pressure zone mode when thinking of flavor changes, or as far as that goes, just about any sound. Steel sounding better than mylar in this combo of room materials, between you and the speaker is interesting. However I can certainly understand the steel conflicting with the front wall. Those are two pretty hard sounds.

The tilt makes perfect sense to me, especially in harder rooms.

fun to watch the progress

Hi Michael

I did the listen from the Front of the Magneplanar MG1.5QR (this is now the side with the perforated magnet pole steel plate that faces the listener), then the Rear (this is now the side where the mylar diaphragm faces the front wall).

Did this as Michael suggested in a state of concentrated comparison. For this I placed myself about 4.5ft from each side which puts me not too near any surface like a wall.

"Aiyeee!"    said Sonic....

Facing the mylar diaphragm directly gave Sonic back the "old" sound that I had been strenuously trying to tune away, although much reduced from the strenuous tuning done by Sonic that Michael guided which occasionally produced effects that baffled us.

The hard, midrangy sound that you imagine a bare concrete room to have was audible at this distance from the panel. A lot of it was the speaker, not just the room.

But when you go to other side (the front/the listener/the perforated steel pole plate side) the sound is warm and lush, the midrange flat and the bass was big and strong. Treble was not hard but extended. The soundstage from the listening chair the coherent and sounds like it is wider than room dimensions.

I don't hear the "concrete sound", or very little of it, when listening from the Front.

The Tune steps I been taking at Michael's advice to fix the BOO! and room ring may have been working all along, it is just the unconstrained mylar midrange peak of the Magneplanar MR1.5QR made the room appear more difficult than it was.
 
When the T3 gets into the system, this system might really sing.  If T3 is overdoing things, the T2 should hit the target spot on

Sonic

Hi Sonic

2 things that still blow my mind. The sound of materials as they interact and the power of pressure-zones. This hobby is full of "I can't believe that just happened" moments. Another reason why I'm into free resonance. Could you imagine fighting with the sound with a fixed cabinet, never being able to do what you just did?

I'll be honest, for the first time I have hope for the maggies in your room. I know things have to settle but if they keep going in a positive direction you might have enough flexibility with them in your room.

The next thing I would like to hear is the difference they have on some of your familar recordings. Pay attention to the timbre, size and space.

good job:!:

Oh one more thing, after things get settled play with your space cones. You might be able to unlock their charge.

Hi Michael

Yes the Space Cones are worth another attempt.

Taking the picture of my system posted on May 8 on Pg 15 of this thread as a start, and you had four Space Cones in hand, where would you use them?

Sonic

Hi Sonic

What do you have in the way of wood not being used?

Lets do an experiment with your electromagnetic fields.

As soon as we get all the products in full production I'll be working on producing "field" tuners, something I was on track to do in the 90's, and is something I still do today, but it is so sensitive that Electro Magnetic Tuning (EMT) may very well be different, and not only that, but in constant change per area.

The space cone is not only a transfer cone but is also the center piece of a tuning technique that at the time I was not able to bring to market properly. At this point it shouldn't stop me from sharing a DIY cheaper version, but I don't know how well this will work as compared to a more formal unit.

First though I want to revisit the sound you get when you place the Space Cones on, by or around your transformers. Put either Magic Wood or LTR Blocks between the space cone and the transformer. Report back pics and findings, and lets see if we can't do some long distance field testing.

Michael, you have just given Sonic a load of ideas!

The transformers...why didn't I think of them?

If each transformer in my system is a "tuning point", then I have at least 5 such "points" -- and do whatever is in wall warts count?

Pictures and ideas tomorrow.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Yes, wall warts too. They're all field generators.

Here's a pic of the powerstrip unit.



I opened it up and snipped the cables, put it back together and it sounds fantastic Sounds like a hollow music block, very nice The tone goes extremely low. I like the inside design too. Just bi-pass the switch and your set.

If we had UL approval we'd mod these ourselves. I'd be tempted to build a custom Tuning Board for this.

Greetings Michael and Zonees

Progress and Puzzlement with Space Cones

Progress
As settling advances, Sonic is getting a depth and weight in the bass the Magneplanar MG1.5QRs did not give me till now. And the cymbals have a beautiful sheen too. The realism brings a smile to me and to those who have listened with Sonic.

On some records, I am hearing a projection starting in the midrange…it is not a “honkiness”….but a feeling that the sound or a part of it wants to break out into my room and fill it.
 
With extended listening, Sonic also notices the observed “snap-blur” signature of the Magneplanars – a sharp and good transient followed by a blurry vagueness – is totally absent. Now the first person I know who described this is Peter Aczel who reviewed the Magnapan Tympani 1-d in The Audio Critic in the 1970s.  It is interesting that back then the single-ended Magneplanars (those with one plate of magnets for a mylar diaphragm, as opposed to push-pull which have two plates) had the metal pole piece facing the listener.  Also I am told but Sonic cannot verify that the mylar used was thicker in the early models.

Many Magneplanar owners blamed lack of power for this effect and used amps running in the hundreds of watts.  But here is Sonic after advice from Mr Green getting a sound that other Magneplanar who hear shake their heads given they are hearing my planars powered with an amp that is 85W on paper.

Beyond this, Sonic is waiting for my order of T3 cables and the mains distributor strip to ship from MGA which I understand from Harold will be sent this weekend.

The sound is so good now thanks to Michael, his products and guidance     I hope the T3s will be just the thing tip the scales and bring the promise of the Tune to Sonic’s system.

Puzzlement
Now Sonic has a new adventure after Michael suggested that I try Space Cones on MW pieces (or Low Tone Redwood blocks) on my transformers.

This is easy….given Sonic has four Space Cones and lots of MW, here is where I can experiment.  

On the two toroidal transformers of the main amp:



And the transformer and choke (a mini transformer really) of the Quicksilver Preamp:



Of course, Sonic will not try all this in one go! An evil recipe for confusion.  So I started with just the main amp’s toroidal transformers because Michael said somewhere on Tuneland that toroidal transformers give off a lot of charge/EMI from their centre cores compared to conventional transformers. If this is the case, we should start where the problem is worst, should we not?

First impression is promising – the sound was deeper in tone and richer sounding (slightly), like moving in a “tubey” direction. No loss of detail but things are sounding more rounded and the bass line is clear and every note is counterpointing the music better.

Of course a big source of EMI and grunge is here:



The switching power supplies of these CD/DVD/SACD players are notoriously “dirty”.  Some listeners Sonic knows say they hear so much hash from these things that they have to install ferrite clips on the mains leads to cut the hash – may be this suppresses the grunge but ferrite can cause many downsides too. But they may be onto something.

Michael – I think I should tune that little transformer in the player’s power supply (the yellow block) don’t you think?  I don’t want to try tuning the two hi-speed switches in foreground of the pix (adjacent and to the right of the T1 wires going to the PCB) because those switches are electrically live.  Placing MW on something with live electricity with a metal Space Cone on it seems like asking for trouble.

I could do this:



Then the unexpected happened – as Sonic was listening late into the evening and doing some labour using the computer at the same time with familiar CDs and SACDs playing – then Sonic looked up and thought “this doesn’t sound right….all the frequencies are there but the sound is shrunken…like the volume level was not enough…” but Sonic knows these disks well that this should not be. And what I was doing in terms of labour was mentally interfered with. The sound was not good as it was before the experiment.

Listening fatigue started and while this isn’t the best thing to do, I made a switch. Space Cones and MW removed from the main amp’s toroidal transformers and I placed one smaller piece of MW on the Quicksilver preamp’s big transformer and set a Space Cone on that.

Back to doing things with music playing.  After an hour or so, the sound went the other way. Thinner and the soundstage was less relaxed and the bass while more prominent in terms of notes and phrases played, was sounding over damped especially in the bass. Real bass is tight but not like this – this is hifi transistor/over damped infinite baffle speaker tight. Quite wrong!

Shaking of head (Sonic’s). I then went to just MW and Space on the CD players small transformer.  More typing and laborious things while music played.   No, this is not right either. The ensemble is not filling my room, similar to like the effect with the preamp. The performers are not with me anymore nor Sonic with them. I was listening to 1s and 0s from a plastic disk.

Its now very late and morning is just a few hours away (from Paul Simon)….and I got an early morning start at the place of labour. Sonic removed all MW and Space Cones from the system, played musick and very soon I was working better, efficiency coming back then Sonic is nodding to the rhythm and flow of the music. The system is sounding much better without the Space Cone/MW combination anywhere.

Today as I prepared this post, the system was run in for some hours with no Space Cones/MW around.  Sebastian Bach’s Anna Magdalena Notebook on the digital player (Igor Kipnis, Nonesuch Digital) and there is a semblance of a real harpsichord playing with a warm bass that projects in front of me with a gentle ambience imposed on my dwelling.

What do you think Michael? While Sonic is prepared to persevere and let prolonged settling occur but where shall I start given that none of these options appear to work within the first hour but actually deteriorate rather noticeably      

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Bear with me on this if you would. Let me use you for a little experimenting.

I want to hear the fields around your parts starting with your bigger transformers.

Keeping the space cones off of anything, cound you do this arrangement for me.



Usually I raise them higher on voicing dowels, but let me hear this if you will, thanks.

Hi Michael

This one is going to need your views and guidance

Sonic placed six Space Cones (that's all I got) on the floor in the arrangement you indicated and started musick.

I started listening carefully at a point when the system was warmed up sufficiently to be reliable in the sound it makes but Sonic knows this is early, not settled by any means and may change with more run in over the next few days.

What Sonic heard and what I say is:

a. I like the sound of this more than any of the Space Cone applications of the last post. The bass is bigger and the sound is transparent with more performance details.

b. The soundstage is now strange. The right hand half of the soundstage to the right wall is clearer and stronger in definiteness while the left hand half of the soundstage is darker and softer, a bit closed down.

c. Another way of explaining this is if I am listening to two violins playing recorded with one 1/2 right and the other 1/2 left, the right hand violinist is standing one foot closer to the mike, while the left hand violinist is playing with slightly less attack and using a smaller tone.

d. There is no imbalance in the stereo sense -- centre panned images are in the same places, no drift to the right.

This is an unexpected effect. What do you think, what shall Sonic do next?

Sonic

An hour on with the six Space Cones and here is a development!

Sonic listened next to two familiar CDs – a double viola da gamba disc and Handel’s Water Musick (Pinnock/ The English Concert/Archiv) – and yes the left-right anomaly is there.  There is very good detail and projection in the Right Hand side of the soundstage but a slightly closed in and soft Left Hand soundstage.

I then removed the six Space Cones from the room and immediately, the balance of the Left Hand soundstage matched the Right Hand soundstage perfectly.

In the process, Sonic observed that the sound of my system without the six Space Cones had more sense of room size and ensemble width.

The system with the six Space Cones gave greater detail and projection in the right hand half of the soundstage but with less apparent/implied width.

The ideal I am pursuing is based on Sonic’s listening to a live performance of a small classical ensemble in a 70ft x 50 ft performance space, rehearsing in front of an audience of five people (including Sonic). There was detail, projection of instrumental lines as well as the sense of the size and width of the room.

Now how do I get both in Sonic’s system?

Your views, Michael?

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Put the cones back in, let it play a while, then spread the cones 2 or 3 inches out, and let it relax again. As you do this also spread the transformers further apart from each other if you can.

below is a look at your field pattern, looking down at the transformer



above is the side view of the same pattern

If you go back and look at your SP placements, where the transformer is in relationship to other field makers, and the pattern above you will be able to spot where one or some of the field rings may have gotten out of balance.

Above you can see the uniform harmonics, with a nice strong third harmonic.

Below you can see that the third harmonic is out of balance, changing the overall flow of one harmonic to the next. Also notice it changed the magnetic core.



This is what is happening when you are tuning not only your transformers, but any part, transformers, electrical wires in the walls and metal chassis being the biggest field changers.

Don't let this scare you   , it's just another level and is more complex. Once you get the hang of seeing what is happening as you do it, it's not that big of deal. But this can also get

Keep in mind everything you are hearing is about SPACE Too close, too far, just right and everything has a "charge".



In a perfect world, you would want to see the rings like this.



What you would want to try to do is find out why they are or aren't giving you this structured pattern.

Hi Michael and Sonic,

Hope sonic don't mind me chiming in to his thread .

I have a question for Michael regarding the space cones, by looking at the pics (transformer and the position of the 4 space cones corners of the transformers over the floor) :

1 ) Can we apply the same way over your amp, preamp and cdp ?

2) If it is so will it have the same description as what Michael has been describing but maybe in a smaller similar or different effect ?

I have read around regarding space cone usage around the rooms and on certain parts of the equipments and also towards furnitures but not towards the whole amp/preamp/cdp itself.

Once again sorry Sonic using your thread.

Regards

Tj

Hi tjbhuler

Actually you are welcome here! Sonic hopes and wishes you would come over here often for a chat, discuss, question and share ideas. I would like to do the same on your thread if you like. That's how we both learn and help the Tune grow

There are six Space Cones in my set up round the toroidal transformer pair.

Following Michael's advice I put the Space Cones back and started to move the transformers and cones apart a little. I think the imbalance is reducing (though still noticeable), yet the whole sound is beginning to change. I played familiar recordings and what Sonic heard was perplexing in that the system now sounded unfamiliar.

Something is going on here for certain.

System now put on settling routine and I will post the changes as I hear them.

Sonic