Drewster's Room

Hi All,

I've now added an additional Apple Airport Express to improve the signal for both the internet radio and Airplay for the TEAC. Also, I have moved the speakers forward gradually, listening for changes. See the photos below. The further forward the speakers get, the better and deeper the soundstage (duh ). In the Abbey Road/Sun King/Crickets test the crickets go about six feet outside each speaker now. I haven't noticed any loss of base yet either. I still have a bit too much reverb/envelope, especially around the vocals, for my taste. But still the ease and musicality is there, and the tonal balance as well. I'll continue to play with placement and let you know how it goes.

The MiniMods are really integrating now with the stands. The stands really bring out more bass and give much more balance. Such a musical combination.   Great vocal timbre on this album.

My downstairs neighbors have gone to the Galapagos Islands for 2 weeks, so I now can play my music as loud as I want  

Good to see you Drewster.

I was just listening to Mini Mods too

Hi All,

I have now moved the speakers just a bit further forward. Of course I'm getting better depth to the soundstage right off the bat. There doesn't seem to be any reduction in bass energy either. I'll let them settle and let you know the results.

Greetings Drewster

Looks good the system you are building!

Sonic got a question which might be relevant for my Rogers LS3/5As -- you are using three upward spikes under your speakers, do you have something between the cabinet and the spike point so the woodwork is not punctured?

Also you started with one spike front and two rear, then recently it is two spikes front and one rear. What was the reason for the turnabout? And I hope that did not mean another three puncture holes in the bottom of the cabinets

How is the bass of these little wonders from Michael, really?

Sonic

Hi Sonic.

Michael recommended the two spikes in the front. I imagine because that's where most of the weight is on these speakers. This arrangement also seems to make them more stable on the stand. The speakers are so light, there are no puncture wounds on the cabinet, just some shallow notches where the spikes support the speakers. The stands have helped quite a bit with the bass. The speakers don't go all that deep, but the energy, clarity and punch is way better than you'd expect just looking at them.

More beautiful pictures Thanks Drewster.

I'm happy to see you moving the Mini into the room further. Even more I'm happy to hear the room responding. It will be interesting getting your thoughts when you get here to listen.

Hi Drewster, your setup is looking better and better. In your last post you said "the speakers don't go all that deep". I'm sure Mr. Green is thinking and I would have to agree shouldn't the statement be "the system doesn't go all that deep"? Based on our listening we haven't heard any speaker this size go nearly as deep as the Mini Mod. When closing my eyes I hear a full range floor standing 8" speaker setup. I hope to hear the Mini Mod with a MGA subwoofer but we don't find the Mini Mod lacking in bass expression. I'm sold on the free resonant concept and find that all Mr. Green speakers work to the level of the whole system. I don't know your room but bet there's a few bass notes hiding in your Teac that haven't been set free yet by looking at your setup.

When MG showed me the before and after with the Sherwood amp, he did it on the Mini Mod and life hasn't been the same since. Bet the same thing would happen with the Teac. One thing I will never do again is listen to a system of mine with the back plate on. Rating your system based on lifestyle is an A+. It would be great to keep the looks and go after the bass both.

Hi Rotelguy,

Yes, I agree I could get more bass out of the TEAC if I were to break it down some. And I'm working on getting a subwoofer to pair with the MM's. My room is pretty big as you can see, so a sub will help fill in the lower registers. Right now I want to keep it a lifestyle system and get the most out of it that way, but we'll see what the future brings. The stands really help, and I will continue to play with the placement of the MM's and let you know what I discover.

Hi Drewster

A subwoofer. What subwoofer will you be using may I ask?

Greetings Drewster and Rotelguy

Might either of you have a sense as to what frequency you have strong and useful bass from your mini-mods (more or less flat to your ears) and where does the mini mod start to noticeably roll off?

Sonic

Rotelguy, I hope to bring my trusty old SW10 out of retirement, and bring it back with me to Ecuador after my return to the states, which includes a visit to MG in Vegas in January.  

Sonic, I'm not so good at estimating frequencies, but I do know the MMs with the stands go noticeably lower cleanly than without. I hope to do some investigation in that regard with Michael in Vegas.

Hi Drewster

How about this test -- if you have Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, play "Ride Across the River" and listen for the lowest bass note. Is it full and strong, creates good pressure in your chest? That note is the low note of the bass about 41hz. If that note is not rolled off and thin and overtight then your speaker may be indeed flat down to below 50hz.

Do let me know what you hear

In many mini monitor systems, the lowest bass note doesn't anchor the song or fill the room. It is thin. Sonic has to say that my Magneplanar MG1.5QRs barely get this sound right despite of the EQ and large surface radiating area of the bass panels. Actually to Sonic's ears there is a big gap between how I hear the lowest notes of a bass played from even the big speakers and the same note played in a concert hall. Both notes may be 40hz notes but the bass in the hall launches differently and comes like a slab of weighty sound while the bass from loudspeakers comes like it is squeezed out of a tube.

Sonic

Hi Guys

Sonic, I know your wanting Drewster to reply, but I replied earlier and then deleted my post and thought about it more. I then spent the night listening to "brothers in arms".

It will be interesting to get Drewster's thoughts when he's here. I have a feeling my rooms are going a few notes lower than his, but we will see.

Hi Michael, Drewster and Zonees

Sonic did get to read Michael's post before it was deleted. It made sense about what you said about the bass from tunable speakers. Why did you delete it?

Having not heard Brothers in Arms for months, certainly not at anytime after the introduction of the JVC SEA-10 since I been listening almost completely to classical music and more LP than CDs, Sonic played the CD tonight after a proper warm up.

With Ride Across the River, the bass on my system is slightly uneven but impressively deep for planar loudspeakers the lowest note giving the piece ample foundation. Sonic said "ample" meaning we are OK but not flat down to 40hz are lower like if there had been a subwoofer. This recording is a feast of low frequency musical signals.

And no one so far has mentioned the Ride Across the River cricket test -- there are crickets on this one They swarm round my Left speaker in a large circle that extends outside the walls of the room, and at the end of the track the crickets extend to the round the right speaker.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

You said,

"Sonic did get to read Michael's post before it was deleted. It made sense about what you said about the bass from tunable speakers. Why did you delete it?"

mg

I felt like I shouldn't be posting without setting up the Mini Mod with that CD. I love "brothers in arms" and it is a fantastic CD (the vinyl & tape have more warmth) for that particular test. The whole recording falls right on that line of big bottom if you can get it. Very much like "crime of the century" and "brother where you bound".

Although my post was correct, it wasn't complete and I needed to not only be tougher on the Mini Mod, but explain myself as I talk about the models of speakers we are doing. Our complete line covers a large range of sounds and it would be wrong to say the Mini Mod will do what the other models do. The right answer is, the Mini Mod will perform to the level of it's environment. Used as a cost effective monitor the mod sounds nothing like a mini monitor. To be honest it sounds more like a full range floor standing speaker. Saying this, the Mini Mod is a great choice to use with the matching sub, and in the long run I bet most will go that extra step because of their listening rooms.

the thing is

How do you talk about a mini monitor that doesn't sound like a mini monitor. It does in the sense of it's imaging, but with much more expression and less beaming. Track one just started again in the next room playing softly and the bass is right there with the rest of the range. On the flip side, in room 2 the Viola Mini (setup the way it is now) reaches in the middle of those notes and not the mid top only which is how I feel with the Mini Mod in comparison. Flipping to the 3rd side the Viola FS in room 3 reaches way under the bass. Low and knows how to separate the low lows from the middle and top. Keep in mind I have done no tweaking yet on the recording, plug & play.

so

Let me not get carried away by my own designer's love for my babies. And more importantly, let me not miss out on a chance to do some referencing together. I have 3 main listening rooms and 7 models of speakers. My next step should be about exploring the idea of playing with the 5 models all using the same woofer. And then explain how to take them to their most promising bass response and sounds within the context of the tune.

and after that

The Viola FS Chameleon will be here along with the new subs. This will be more bass fun.

crickets

There are three references that I have been using for crickets lately. Abbey Road, Amused to Death and Brothers in arms now. I will give an account of the crickets in all three rooms.

Hi Guys

As usual I got side tracked, then I few moments ago realized I never gave my Dire Straits cricket report. OOPs

So a day later now I went back in listening room #1 to refresh my memory. The volume I turned up till my chest was resonating from the bass. I figure this was somewhere in the region that Sonic was playing. I thought to myself "why don't I listen this loud". I notice this when others listen to my systems as well. Seems like almost everyone I listen with listens to the music a little bit louder than me. Something I will need to think about more, maybe. Anyway, at this volume I kinda felt like I was back in the studio control room and not the mastering room. Again interesting. My chair was vibrating at almost everything played. It's a different chair than the wicker which has found a home with the neighborhood cats outside. Sorry Mr. Wayne Newton but you've been bumped.

All 3 systems played the crickets differently (I love it ). This said all 3 systems had one thing in common. The crickets came from all over the room as well as behind me. The very last cricket on the track went way out of my room to the right about even with my ears plane. I did hear specific crickets from the left, but at the same time would hear them from other points in the room as well. To me it didn't have the feeling of left or right, but more being dumped in the middle of a fairly large environment, with them barking off sounds as individuals among the many. I do want to say though that there are clearly particular ones on the left and later on the right but not neccessarily gathering around the speakers as like a group here and a group there type of thing.

I remember Sonic turning me onto the frogs with the crickets on abbey road, and after that I kept digging and digging and found things all over the place. If there are other specifics here for me to look at, let me know I love doing this stuff. it's a blast for me when someone uncovers something and I get to go after it. There's always so much there to look at.

Hi Michael

You said, "The volume I turned up till my chest was resonating from the bass. I figure this was somewhere in the region that Sonic was playing. I thought to myself "why don't I listen this loud". I notice this when others listen to my systems as well. Seems like almost everyone I listen with listens to the music a little bit louder than me."

Strange....volume turned up till chest resonating from the bass. I figure this was somewhere in the region that Sonic was playing.

That must be a different Sonic

For this Sonic, Ride Across the River was loud enough to give weight to the lowest notes but far from "chest resonating". In fact the level I used for this test would have been appropriate for mid-scale classical music come to think of it.

Sonic

oops sorry

Not sure why I thought this. I'll go back to my normal setting, however it was quite fun to listen to. I kept looking at the Mini thinking why are they not bottoming out or distorting. I'm sure because the speaker/room pressure were working together well at that moment. Of course any speaker/amp will poop out, but when the zones are in good balance free resonance can get quite loud.

so let me go back in quick at lower volume

OK, back

I played Ride a little softer than I usually do this time. My first thought was "man do these mini mods love Rm #1". Second thought was "as good as it might be, 1-3 passes has nothing on a day of playing". Today the recording smashes last nights listening. The crickets are even more specific and also more spread out all around me. The sustained notes that happen during the song last night did a good job of striking and then moving in nice pans, but today the environment of the recording moved with an ease in and out of each others domain. Very exact but also very flowing. You can hear where the guitar effects were turned up and down and blended in with the mood.

I had to then put on "brothers in arms" and it felt like I was listening among the clouds.

I think the Floorstanding SAM's must be starting to settle already cause the tone is beautifully woody. Last night you could hear the wood some, but today the physical FS's are gone. I didn't know how much I was hearing them last night till I listened just now and I can pick them out in the room at all. A little surprising seeing this is a 9 x 10 room. I honestly was thinking that I was going to need to adjust or even make a smaller pair and use these somewhere else, but they seem to feel right at home.

Surprising, the music is still resonanting my chest and body and I can feel the chair transfering the Vibes. I made a quick adjustment in volume and maybe it was my imagination, but the music at any volume was being felt. I'm glad I put the mini back in room #1.

Unfortunately I didn't get to upload Brothers in Arms before I left for Ecuador, but I plan to be able to upload it soon. That said, what I am amazed at recently is how good mp3 internet radio (especially Cool Radio Jazz and Canal Jazz) and Apple Music selections sound through the system when being streamed through Airplay. This was not expected at all.   I can sit and listen for a long while before noticing enough irritation that I have to stop. While I know that there is significant information missing, the music is still very tuneful and enjoyable.

As far as my experience so far with placement of the MiniMods, I find that I can pull them out into the room and away from the reinforcement of the back wall only so far before I lose sufficient base that it subtracts from the music. So my room right now is really not conducive to the near field listening which I would prefer (unless I got a couple of SAMs to section my large space   ). But the soundstage is still wide and spatial definition is good, so I'm very happy.    [Hoping to add a subwoofer within the next two months though  ]

FULL RANGE  

Hey, look at you man

That was fast, glad you got the SW-10 home safe and sound

Where do you have the phase set at?

I've been playing with it at 0 and 180. So far sounds a little tighter at 180.

Hola amigos!

Ok, it's out with the old lifestyle arrangement....














And in with the new























One of my neighbors is moving back to Canada, so I bought their recliner, TV and TV stand. Quite an improvement! And better placement for the sub.