ML's System

Hello ML -- Welcome to the TuneLand Techno-Zone

To start your thread I'm posting below your comments and drawing and pics of your listening room.



[I'm] Always looking for more clarity, detail and depth in the music. And I’m frustrated by the lack of sense of spaciousness. I have to move my head on the right side of the couch in order to find the right spot and it is still never really the right spot, just the best but still inadequate. Also when I close my eyes, I have too much awareness of the music coming from in front of me and what sounds are coming out of each speaker vs. being in the space of the music and having the music come from the space not the speaker. Does that make sense?

So here is what I have. I want to take it to the next level but I think I should get the room fixed first and then probably usb or adapter and glass cable. Do you agree.

· Canton 609 3 way towers. Not so impressed with them, but enough definition that I hear every little change I make to wire, panels, speaker position, etc and they get better as I change the rest.

· Just upgraded from Monster THX 16 gauge Cable to, similar gauge but flat Wireworld home theater cable. Much better definition, clarity and ring to the highs and realness to the mids.

· Decco2 (Integrated amp w/dac, 60w. Says 40 but their engineers told me actually 60). Tend to have it set for narrow (more articulate) and have the tube off. The tube away too much detail and punch.

o I also have an ADCOM 80w power amp from the 90s (Don’t use it. I thought about bi-amping the speakers however). Do you have an opinion?

· Almost all music is high bitrate wav and flac files via regular USB cable, although I do have a Sony CD player with a cheap optical cable. (PC sounds better comparing my wave EAC rips to original) and I barely use the CDs. But I might if they sounded better than computer files.

· Standard PC USB cable.

· No special power cable or conditioner.

· I have four 3-in x 2’ x 4’ GIK Acoustics absorption panels almost all the way up in the front corners (black) and another white one (4”) on the floor/wall left of the speaker (behind the light)to invent space since my couch seat and speakers are not centered in the room. Also shown in front on chair. Only front floor corners currently covered. Moroccan. pillow also on floor at back left corner of dining room. Note walls make a double corner at from left

· Patio doors are glass.

· Walls are dry wall

· Double rear corners before and behind soffit/kitchen.

· Sitting 7 ft from speakers. Have to put left almost at wall to get 7 ft spread.

· 28.5 ft to back of kitchen. 20 ft to soffit

Hi ML Welcome to the techno-zone

Most people who get into this hobby get thrown into their first big mistake right off the bat. Over doing things. When this doesn't fix the problem then they add even more till it gets to the point of no return for the system.

To start heading in a direction that is going to get you where you wish to go is a simple one. Get rid of the bulk and blockage in the system. Take out the big absorbers and replace them with a simple TunePak setup. Take a look at what you absolutely want to stay in the room. You will see how almost everyone who gets into the tune ends up with a dedicated area. This can be done in a living room with great results if you are willing to see what sounds good in the room and what doesn't sound so good in the room. We can help you walk through the steps.

Let me know when you are ready to begin and we will take the steps you wish to and as big or small of steps as fits your own pace.

Hi ML

Welcome to the Zone! This is a fun place.

The Tune is more than things stuck to walls but another way of looking at audio and acoustics. No weird science here served with snake oil I assure you. There is instead a fresh way of thinking about music reproduction with the Tune. For sure some of it is very far from the stuff you read in the hi-end magazines but join the discovery, ask questions, debate and catch the mindset of the Tune. You'll enjoy yourself and get great lifelike music in your home at a surprisingly low cost.

Sonic

Thanks Michael:

I'm ready to go. Do we set up a call?

Anytime Friday works for me.

Matthew

Hi Matthew

Just left a message for you. Friday is find! I live on the west coast so we can make it 11am my time if that's OK.

Looking forward to it.

Thanks, Michael. Moved out some panels and the chair to experiment. Also pulled out the speakers from the walls and lessened the toeing. opened up the sound quite a bit. Sound coming from everywhere now but it is way to noisy. like it gives me a headache.

Still too much left vs right but better.
then I put all the panels back but left the speakers out more. that is the best option I have right now.

Looking forward to receiving your stuff. I'll call Andrew today.

Hi ML

Great! Hearing how much energy is in the room is how it begins. Once you get the "tunes" you will for the first time hear the bigger soundstage plus control as opposed to one or the other. It's a remarkable step to go from where you are to this next level. Once you get acoustically tuned it won't be long before you will start to think about how much potential a tuned system can really have. It's like a whole new hobby.

I did some searches and found some very interesting and beautiful pieces of art that you have created. Wow.
I'm really impressed.

If you have any clients in the Miami/Boca area that might be willing to show off what they have, I'd love to see more.

Unscrewed the elec. Put the spkrs and amp on pennies. No change with putting the amp up. Speakers on pennies definitely brings out the highs. Bass may be sharper/cleaner…not sure. Used 3 pennies. Does height matter? I really thought all these little spikes and the like were BS. I’m a convert.

Couldn’t open up the integrated amp.
http://signalpathint.com/index.php/decco2/

They make it tricky. The box isn’t metal, it is wood. They really do seem committed to quality sound via USB at a reasonable price. So, I can’t tune this thing. It has a dac, preamp and 60 watt amp in it for $500 (demo) so I think I’m sticking with it for a while. And, after listening to a Chesky demo CD yesterday, I was pretty impressed.

To tame the low end harmonic hum right where I sit (50- 120 hz according to the device, which makes sense given that I needed 3 and 4 inch traps to tame it.) – I had to bring the bass traps that are behind the rack in front of me to almost center and stand a bass trap behind me.

I think there was a bounce up and back thing going on since even a thick bass trap in the left corner didn’t do it. It is a bit dead but could find another way to get rid of the hum that was clouding the rest of the music.

Sounds pretty good from my chair on the couch but the rest of the room is pretty lifeless and quiet and the sweet spot is pretty small.

Is there a better way to use these traps or move yours?

I'll email pictures.

Thoughts?

Hope you are having some good meditation, creative or otherwise productive time this weekend.

Matthew

Hey MG:

Turned the room 90 degrees so windows aren't behind the speakers. Windows now to the left. 20' of dining and kitchen to the right.

Got the Peachtree Deco, Adcom amp and CD player open and clipped all the wires. Tops are off. Bi-amped the Cantons with the Decco gong to the botton and Adscom to the mids and tweet. All components are on pennies or screws on wood for now. Stacking pre-amp and amp still.

Took out Monster 16g speaker wire and replaced with Wireworld flat Instawire. Big improvement.

Put the RoomTunes up. Took down most of the bass traps. Still have one behind the "rack" and another behind the couch. Both on their sides along the base boards. Much bigger sound with the Room Tunes. More detail, focus, and space. Would like an even bigger deeper sound stage but don't want to loose detail and focus. Right now, it is a trade off - remove the traps and the soundstage get s huge but music is is so out of focus it hurts to listen for more than 20 min.

As an experiment, I raised the speakers up on a 1/2 inch marble slab which tightened the bass, added detail and air. Soundstage even bigger.

So configuration is:

Speaker
4 pennies
1/2 inche marble "tile"
4 pennies

Wish I had some wood to put under the speakers in stead of marble but then again that might be too smooth and I'd have less detail. Hmmmmm........

Hi ML

Good to see you. Before you go too far lets look at what we have.

An audio system.

How does it work?

An audio system uses energy (acoustical, mechanical, electrical) to amplify an audio signal.

What is audio signal?

A frequency based language stimulated by vibration.

What is the audio chain?

The step by step process of taking the audio signal from it's origin (source) to your brain with the use of conduits.

What is an audio conduit?

Anything that physically passes, or activates the audio signal in all three stages of the audio playback process.

Name some of the pieces of the audio chain conduit?

the circuit box
electrical wiring
wall outlet
power supply
source component
amplification component
interconnect and speaker wires
loudspeakers
materials in the room
air
room (acoustical environment)
ears

What is accurate audio reproduction?

Taking the recorded audio signal and playing it back reproducing the same same values on the recording.

What is personal taste in audio?

Shaping the sound to an individual liking rather than the original source material.

Hoe does vibration work in an audio system?

Everything in a system vibrates. This vibration can be reduced or added to to change the sound of the system.

What is full range?

The entire audio spectrum 16hz to 22khz typically.

How do we pass a full range signal through the audio chain?

By making sure all of the parts of every audio conduit are able to vibrate all the frequencies in the audio spectrum.

What is the biggest problem when passing the signal through the conduits?

The imbalance of dampening vs energy flow. Signal blockage.

What is harmonic structure?

Natures balance in all energy forms as a spherical support system to maintain fundamental frequency response.

How does this work?

By removing blockage in the audio chain to the point of allowing the harmonic structures to form past the 3rd harmonic (in tune) and up.

What are the results sonically?

Full size sound stage with minimal frequency gathering. (clusters)

There are many more but here is the starting point to get the mind thinking about where we must go.

In you system we need to cover the "mess of mass" as it is causing certain things to happen to your sound.

Keep in mind that all parts need to be equal oppertunity signal passers. What in your system is not? And, how much is it holding the rest of your system back?

Once things are set free or removed the system will perform at a whole new level even much bigger and better than you have right now.

This process becomes less brain wave shocking after the first few steps.