Building a Room Full of Balanced Harmonics

"Wholeness" one of my very top of the list audio words, and once you hear it, nothing else quite measures up. It's like someone holding up a picture of a ball and all of a sudden someone bounces a ball accross the room in real life. The picture may have been nice but the bouncing ball has so much more to it. There's depth and movement and punctuation and someone bouncing it and interaction.

Keep in mind that while your tuning with these that the lighter ones do something different than the heavier ones do as far as tone shaping so when you want to use them to blend you might want to get use to the sound of the different ones.

Greetings Michael and Zonees

So three low tone redwood blocks placed under the Sony BDP 380.



Nice and whole, extended and bigger bass. Better to listen to   

The thing is, after four days of playing musick to settle, Sonic tried adding my CD player top tune canopy and the top tuning shrank the width of the soundstage instantly.  

This is quite the opposite of what I have experienced from top tuning.

Sonic then experimented with the distance of the canopy from the CD player from too close to too far, ensured the rods were vertical, ensured that rods did not touch the MW as they went through the mounting holes, adjusted the pressure from the down rod on the transport.  The soundstage stayed smaller than without top tuning   

Michael -- what's the reason for this?

Could it be that I am using a cobbled up top tune assembly made of M Green genuine finished MW boards glued together braced with MW, M Green metal rods and MTDs and a resitone down rod? And this work before on the same player on the same rack.



I can do without top tuning but Sonic knows what good it can contribute to the tune.

Your thoughts?

Sonic

Hi Sonic

This is wonderful that this is taking place, and goes back to the mass vs less mass equation. If the stage shinks it means that the transfer is raised in pitch as compared to the resonant tone now being produced by the Blocks or that the vibrations from the grounding (the rack) are heading back into the component. If you use a lighter weight transfer with fuller range parts it will open back up. However let me also add that this is a good sign that you are heading in the right direction and time to look at other things in your system that might contain too much mass.

As I start to head in the direction of open I always find myself spotting things in my system that are out of balance as compared to others. All of a sudden my top tuning for example is too much mass (concentrated) to suck the vibrations up out of my components or that the object receiving the vibration is too massy. It's all part of the balancing act that has to be played as we lighten up the mass and broaden the frequecy range.

Hello Zonees

Sonic tested out what Michael just said about reducing mass by removing the DIY (from FS-Decotune stands with upward pointing resitone spikes) platforms from under the Quicksilver preamp and saving weight by resting the QS-pre on three Low Tone Redwood Blocks and letting it settle for one day.

With a short settling time, the sound shifter lower and the soundstage went wider. Sonic is now closer to understanding what Michael has been talking about.

Then in the evening, Sonic started playing more music to just listen – Nobilissima Visione by Paul Hindemith with the composer conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra (Angel), Pergolesi’s Concerti Armonici - the Munchinger Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra (Decca), soundtrack from The Eddy Duchin Story (Brunswick) and Portraits by Virgil Thomson (Nonesuch). All LPs but also a CD or two (Vivaldi).

The Hindemith is a mono recording yet Sonic is getting wall-to-wall big mono stage. The bass is deep and defined. Very good.

Get your Low Tone Redwood, Zonees!

Sonic

Greetings Zonees

The Low Tone Redwood blocks are changing the sound of my room/system towards warmer, richer and fuller. More are being introduced gradually into the system. Sonic is hearing surprisingly deep bass too on some CDs/LPs.

This is some of the best stuff I have ever bought from Michael or perhaps it is the right stuff now that the tuning lever of the room has been identified. I guess every room has a tuning problem and a fulcrum/lever that once we know what and where that is, the right things from Michael’s arsenal can be used and progress will be big.

Sonic has along the way found that MM cartridges have more girth and punch than equivalent MCs. For now, I am of the view that the sound of good MMs (like the Ortofon 2M series) maybe more in sync with the Tune's emphasis on girth than MCs, though the top ones like my dream EMTs are wonderful with horns but is it the cartridge or the horns?

Been listening to: Bridge over troubled water --Simon and Garfunkel (CD), Colin Matthews Cello Concerto/Sonata 5 (Landscape), Unicorn Kanchana (LP), R Schumann Konzertstuck (concert pieces) for 4 horns and orchestra/piano and orchestra, Nonesuch (LP).

Sonic

I'm very happy to hear the progress. It's all about the vibratory code and tuning it. What is the most fun for me is to find out that the music was there all along, we just have to learn about the signal and how to uncover it.

The audio signal is far more delicate than we could imagine.

time to think platforms?

  

Greetings Zonees

More Low Tone Redwood blocks introduced into Sonic’s system.

Under the Preamp and its transformers:



Under the rods of the two Clampracks:



As the system warms and settles, more Sonic feels I need to change the position of the loudspeakers by moving them somewhat further from me. Mostly it is to improve the imaging across the soundstage.

Let’s where that takes Sonic next.

Sonic

Sonic is finding that seeing Low Tone Redwood as a substitute for MW squares and blocks may be in correct. They may have a purpose and place in a system different from MW from Michael and consequently do something that MW does not.

The direction of the Low Tone Redwood blocks is warm and deep is true but in some applications it leads in the direction of wooly and reduced.

Finding that saturation point is very important   

Once you do find it you can begin the mixing and matching.

So much fun, and it will help you dial in recordings in a simple way one from another.

Sonic seems to be getting the impression that in my system, the LT redwood blocks work very well as interface devices between something and the floor (speakers, racks, FS-PZCs and so on). The tweaks that instantly sounded good and got better with settling are these.

When used between a piece of gear on a Clamprack shelf that is balanced and with rods not touching the shelves (only the hex nuts), the sound starts to go wooly and reduced.

If this is the case, Sonic may need to reconsider the AAB1x1s, Harmonic Springs, poplar and MW for these devices once LT redwood is used to separate the rack/FS-PZC from the floor.

Michael, what does this tell you? That my floor is a race track of negative vibrations?

Sonic

Greetings Zonees

Here's where we are with the introduction of Low Tone Redwood into Sonic’s system.

Reduced mass from the main amp assembly – 3 blocks of LT Redwood under the hemlock board.  Amp chassis sits on 3 MW blocks while the transformers are on Harmonic Springs on a Michael Green finished cedar board and with M Green spikes.



The Low Tone Redwood works under the Corner FS-PZCs – AAB1x1 cones used spiking onto the redwood blocks .



This appears to work too:



Now this one got a mixed result:



Notice the Low Tone Redwood blocks under the centre FS-PZC – that worked well by bringing the centre images forward and making them tonally richer.  

But when Low Tone Redwood blocks were placed under the base boards of the two FS-DRTs (see Right of pix) on each side of the centre FS-PZC, the middle stage shrank, a mild case of banana shaped soundstage occurred and tonal richness was reduced.  Effect noticeable immediately.

Michael – why?

Sonic

sonic

Michael, what does this tell you? That my floor is a race track of negative vibrations?

mg

It tells me that perhaps a lower tone transfer might be what is needed between your components and the floor. Wonderful to watch how things are shaping up though and how the vibrations are having such an affect.

sonic

But when Low Tone Redwood blocks were placed under the base boards of the two FS-DRTs (see Right of pix) on each side of the centre FS-PZC, the middle stage shrank, a mild case of banana shaped soundstage occurred and tonal richness was reduced.  Effect noticeable immediately.

Michael – why?

mg

I would venture to say it is because the red oak on the bottom of the DFS is fighting with the LT Redwood and the floor. Try going with Magic wood here, it might have a pitch that is easier for the red oak to get along with. Or try 4 blocks (one on each corner) instead of 3. The flow maybe be what is strange.

With a few more combos of voiced wood you will become dangerous   

Not dangerous yet....Sonic tried MW blocks under the FS-DRT in threes. Not very good, the sound got bright and hard, the cello range stepped down a couple of dBs. Four MW blocks under each FS-DRT base didn't work because the weight was uneven on them due to slight unevenness of the floor so I don't know how this sounds.

Between 1 front/2 rear or 2 front/1 rear under the FS DRT base, not much difference.

This is an initial experience but from what I understand, if the tone starts shifting up immediately, it won't reverse and start shifting down with settling. So Sonic gave up and went with no support under the FS-DRT base.

I have drilled the base, should I use MTDs or AAB1x1s, then set them on MW or LT Redwood blocks? Michael will this make a difference?

As for the sound of Harmonic Springs from Michael, the matt ones give a warmer, deeper and more musical sound than the bright plated ones. The bright plated may give more detail and are different in spring rate (softer than the matt ones slightly) but the images particularly in the middle are less projected.

Your thoughts, Michael?

Hi Michael

This weekend, Sonic tried a quick experiment.

Presently, my front wall has a FS-PZC in each corner and a cluster of two FS-DRTs and one FS-PZC in the centre. So is its PZC - DRT - PZC - DRT - PZC

Sonic tried moving theFS-DRTs from the centre into the corners and having a cluster of 3 PZCs in the centre instead. That is FS-DRT (corner) - PZC - PZC - PZC - DRT (corner).

The result was unexpected. Unexpectedly bad.

A piercing midrange and a rolled off bass. Very unpleasant. Sonic let things run in for an hour, when I came back it was no better may be even more thin and artificially projected.

A reset brought instant relief.

Question: if a Tune action causes an upward shift in tone, will it ever shift downwards if left to settle with no further adjustments, tunes being made?

Sonic spent this Sunday evening listening to Toru Takemitsu’s Rain tree and other piano works (Noriko Ogawa on piano) and a classic Decca recording of Beethoven’s complete Violin Sonatas (Arthur Grumiaux, vln and Clara Haskil, pno).

More questions for Michael:

How will you go about tuning a Rega turntable?

Rega turntables have some features that are good for Tuning and some maybe not so good for Tuning.

Good:
Lightweight simple design, no complex springs and sub-chassis, excellent RB700 arm with near spot-on geometry for Baerwald setting although Roy Gandy is said to have developed the arm for the Stevenson geometry

Not so good:
Plinth is some form of wood/chipboard composite, plastic inner platter, rubber/elastomer (x3, two front/one rear) feet for vibration isolation.

The turntable has a glass platter and a felt mat. I don’t know if this is good or bad but felt is probably better than rubber.

So how do I tune this? There are aftermarket parts for the Regas – an alloy inner platter and a main platter of either Delrin or Acrylic.

Michael, between a glass, Delrin and an Acrylic platter, what will be your choice?

Felt is better than rubber, what mat is better than felt? Cork is available and there is also strange stuff like carbon fibre or copper. What’s your thoughts?

Sonic

sonic

Question: if a Tune action causes an upward shift in tone, will it ever shift downwards if left to settle with no further adjustments, tunes being made?

mg

Anything can happen but if I hear an upward shift it does make my ears look for what I did to lose the lower harmonics. Things usually settle in the direction they start in if everything in the system is well broken in. In most cases if it is settling in the best way, the low tones will come in, get a little fuzzy, then start to clear up and bring dynamics with it throughout the whole spectrum. But this is when you are playing the same recording non-stop. If you are planing on a shorter listen and to a few pieces of music you will want to look for a setting to your settling that lets you find a happy place even though it may not be perfect for all. I lean toward full so my setting would be slightly wooly and I would live with that for me over shrinkage. Others have to have the sense of tight even if it means thin and smaller. It depends on where you want to go for that listen.

sonic

How will you go about tuning a Rega turntable?

mg

I might be too far outside the loop on this one, too long ago. I can see it sitting on my wall mount stand for it but don't recall enough to be a fair tweaker of it.

Michael

What's the difference in sound signature of glass, acrylic and delrin? If every material affects the sound, each will their signature. What do your ears tell you.

For the Rega, I'll probably go for the alloy inner platter and bearing. The material characteristics are better than plastic. As for the main platter, that's what I checking.

Or maybe leave it alone and enjoy the musick?

Sonic

Sonic notices that LT Redwood blocks taking the weight of a hemlock heavy shelf on the floor may cause a fight. The arrangement under the main amp may not be that great. Sounds like some vintage tubes -- warm and lush but no deep bass. Going back to large Harmonic Feet on thin MW (system restore point).

As for LT Redwood on hemlock under the CD player and its MW 1/4" thick MW pieces may still be promising. Moving carefully but more listening to musick.

Michael -- pls give your views on my question about the sound signature of glass, acrylic and delrin....

Determined to ask me turntable questions are you   

Well I usually don't jump in unless I have a clear study in front of me but in this case maybe someone will bail me out if I get too far out there or off track.

TT's are the best example of why everyone in high end audio should be into tuning. It surprises me when people think about electronics as fixed then they play with their tables. Isn't that something the way we make connections about things in our minds. Anyway, that's just a side note to the industry.

The most important thing I see about tables and their material combos is that if you look closely people are getting varying results. This is why I spend a lot of time voicing materials and studying them as well as listen to others results. It's about the material yes, but it's also about the combos and how far your particular vibratory code travels at your place and how much of the energy goes on an easy dissipation path and which vibrations stall (stand) and which ones return to the source.

"In physics, the dissipation factor (DF) is a measure of loss-rate of energy of a mode of oscillation (mechanical, electrical, or electromechanical) in a dissipative system. It is the reciprocal of quality factor, which represents the quality of oscillation."

Believe it or not your plater is vibrating differently at your place than any other place in the world.   If you look at reviews on tables and their parts and then go read turntable forums you will see that the reviews were about as accurate as mud   . This is why I love and roll my eyes at the hobby at the same time. People giving reviews need to learn that this is a varied science and need to quite making statements of absolutes.

The three platter choices you have mentioned can all sound good or bad depending on how you use them. They are also all return materials meaning they reflect a lot of sound back into the vinyl which is why your mat choice is extremely important. I understand why they make the platters out of these materials and to be honest I doubt that it had anything to do with sound at first. There using materials that hold shape then writing their stories of sound after the fact.

I can't tell you past a guess which one is right for you but I can tell you what my favorite platter was like. It was cut out of a drumshell and had cross pieces put into it with screw holes so I could have thin platter plates made out of different materials and they would screw down unto the cross piece frames. My mats were as interesting. Some felt materials, foam but also cardboard, shaved wood and leather ones.

Hi Michael and Zonees

Yes, Michael I wanted your views on turntable material. Every manufacture not surprisingly has a view that this or that material works best – so it is a world of forged aluminum, brass, delrin, glass, mixed materials – some fine results yet large variations. Good point about my platter vibrating in a way that it does nowhere else. I guess if when I use the P5 in a system in another part of my dwelling things change again.

I was also fascinated with what you used for a platter and mats. Certainly no rubber – if ever there was a robber of life from a table it would be a rubber mat. Hmmm…cardboard, foam, shaved wood mats!

This week small advances were made as the Low Tone Redwood settled in. First I got more evidence the blocks are good as interface with the floor but less between a component and the surface of a hemlock shelf. The CD player started to sound turgid and pinched with three Low Tone Redwood blocks under it. Prolonged playing of a CD on repeat to push settling reinforced the problem so I went back to the 2 ½” x 2 ½” x ¼” MW squares under the Sony BDP380 and top tuned again. A very quick return to proper balance with a more extended bass resulted.

With the Low Tone Redwood, Sonic is now hearing notes in the bass that were up to this time weak unless the Janis W-1 subwoofer was in used.

I find what Garp said about getting an improvement in his room with a M Green subwoofer placed but disconnected. Garp said “Without the sub, bass energy was good but not balanced with the midrange/treble. With the passive sub (not connected to an amp), bass was very forceful and provided a fuller, balanced sound. I could feel the bass notes on some albums push into my chest”.

Michael how do you explain this? Does the unconnected subwoofer act like an Auxiliary Bass Radiator?

Maybe Sonic should reintroduce the Janis W-1 on some Low Tone Redwood blocks without driving it and see what happens.

One new thing Sonic did was when I found the sound going excessively warm after use of the Low Tone Redwood blocks, I marked the tune in my record book as such but did not backtrack, instead pressed ahead and carried out one of the tunes that I know from experience will move things towards transparent or brighter. So when this too warm effect occurred, Sonic slightly tightened the mounting feet of the nearby DecoTunes and the air and openness returned.

Listened to Brahms’ Viola Sonatas (Hyperion), Telemann’s Wassermusick (Archiv) and more of the Beethoven Violin Sonatas (complete in 3 CDs).

With the musick I am getting now, there is less motivation to try moving the MG1.5QRs around from where they are now -- at just behind the halfway length of the room length and 1 1/2 ft from the side wall, with a small toe in, some tilt back and sitting on Low Tone Redwood blocks.

Sonic

Hi Sonic

It's now quite nice to hear you talk about the using of voiced wood. This is your future. As you indroduce even more in the right places and the right wood your tuning will increase. Hint: you can also blend them. A sliver of Magic Wood on top or below the LT.

Did you get other pieces of wood with the shippment? Thought I sent you a bar, sticks and maybe a couple boards.

passive sound

The audiophile rules need to be expanded to include the tune. It's important for us as listeners to see that passive objects become active when put in our rooms. I try as much as I can to talk about this without people freaking out over this true world. I know that it is hard when we are taught certain things for our minds to get into a different frame when for years the audiophile teaching has spelled out to us values and limits, but in real life energy plays a much more profound role and as we uncover this it frees us to visualize a more true world view and sets us on a course of real value. In physics air pressure is equally as strong as electric driven transducers if the transducer is free resonant or close to. In other words GARP's subwoofer because of being free resonant doesn't care if it is driven by electricity or sound pressure to turn on. The room/speaker combo indroduces energy and the space responds by stimulating as much fullness to the sound range vibratory info as it can. The frequencies we have in listening (at the basic level) are still in the very low part of the vibratory scale, meaning they have a lot of physical force behind them. Their powerful enough to make everything in that room vibrate and come to life. At times you may not think the sound is there but energy is just waiting to be stimulated (played) and when something is in the room to be played, it will.

Here's something about our systems and enviroments that you may not know. Energy starts at (true zero) and continues all the way up the cycle scale in our rooms. It's just waiting for something to bring it to life, but it's there. Everything that is contained within an orbit and submits to a sphere such as the Earth must contain the full scale to stay in correct value with itself. Pretty cool huh ? Your room or house contains every thing it needs to produce the entire music scale and all the  wave/pressure fields that influence it.

Sound pressure is the coolest of cool cause you don't see it (well most don't), but it's very noticable when you put something in the middle of it and it vibrates. Vibrates enough to move the sensory hairs in your ears, strong enough to balance your body. Did you know that speakers that can't produce a balanced off axis phase alignment actually will make you dizzy? If you are by things in your room or anywhere that is creating off axis distortion it effects your balance. Most people in the industry don't understand that a speaker that can not make an orbital pattern (speakers that must have a sweet spot) makes you off balance enough to make you dizzy sick or fatigued. Ever notice how wives don't want to sit next to the listener or people out of the sweet spot lose interest in the sound? Now you know why. This is why I hate when people make the sound waves look like straight lines and reflections. They are so far off and when you hear someone say "that speaker makes me sick"    their probably right.

keep thinking energy, keep thinking pressure, balance, spheres, fair exchange, harmonics, fields

These are the things that will always help us to understand how powerful energy is and always, Always, remember that the energy scale, bottom to top, is ever present. Just cause you don't see the frenquencies their still there.

Also keep in mind that you may not be able to hear them (frequencies, completed cycles) or recognize them because if in distortion mode, they are not able to become notes. You may be picking them up as distortion with your ears and not musical notes being produced. Another reason why I try to push people toward a bigger soundstage is because if they stay with the smaller stages their listening to more distortion than they are musical notes. Ever sit there listening and when you open up the stage you hear an instrument that wasn't there before? This happens going up and down in size, but when you do this going down in size you may not notice it at first but your making things disappear. This is why a lot of audiophiles are down on rock music recordings. They have lost so much of the sound to get focus on a few instruments or mic placements that when they have something complicated played their systems can't. When I hear audiophiles complaining about the way rock sounds it shows me that they probably don't have a system that can play complicated music, harmonics and notes.

Hi Michael

Yes I got the long block and 4 square section rods, two larger and two smaller (no boards though). Thank you for the extras. What can I with them especially the square rods?

Sonic brought the Janis W-1 back in and wired it up. The Janis W-1 sits on 4 Low Tone Redwood blocks one which has a thin MW shim for leveling. The Rotel mono amp sits on 3 Low Tone Redwood blocks.

The whole low end sounds different from other times I had used a subwoofer to augment the Magneplanar MG1.5QRs. For a given setting there is a different effect. I need to listen more before I can describe it properly.

Sonic

Something must be right. Since Sonic got the Janis W-1 running in my system I been listening and not worrying about the system.

Heard Kirchner's Piano Concerto Nr 1, Piston's Symphony Nr 6, Sylvia Marlowe playing harpsichord in Vittorio Reiti's Concerto for Harpsichord and conducting Reiti's Partitia for Flute, Oboe,String Quartet and Harpsichord (played by Marlowe), Renaissance Vocal Music (Nonesuch) and Telemann's Sonatas for Flute, Oboe, Cello and Cembalo (Nonesuch).

It is great to hear musick and forget about the equipment.

Hi Michael and Zonees

Heard more great musick (analog) this weekend.

Three LPs were played: Marin Marais' Alcide on Decca France, a recording of works by a little known French composer Gabriel Guillemain -- Conversations Galantes and Amusements (Decca France). Beautiful works by this talented composer who sadly died a suicide. The third LP was W J Beckwith's Quartet 1977 and R Murray Schafer's Quartet Nr 2 (Waves) played by the Orford Quartet. Very nice.

Then Sonic tried the wood square rods under my X-30 crossover. The X-30 rests on two rods (visualize an "H", the horizontal line being the X-30) instead of three AAB1x1 cones spiking into MW. Played a familiar CD. The sound went funny. It was "woody" but in a cardboard and papery way, and a heavier bass that made me want to turn the subwoofer gain down when it was right up to the introduction of the square rods.

This is probably not the fault of the rods, I just used them in the wrong application.

Michael is this the right application for the rods, is this effect to be expected which will resolve with settling or more tuning?

Sonic

Hi Sonic

Sorry for the late response, been running around   

Your last couple of posts helped me get a fix on your system and listening a little. The Rods I put in the box are raw wood that I wanted to hear the results of in your system. It will tell me how to finish stuff for you in the future, thanks.

As far as the bass, I have noticed that all of us have a cue specific to us. Some people go after all three at different times but many of us are either bass, mid, or treble people. Once that particular sense is in practice the world is a happy place.

I think all the flavors have their place and since I spend most of my time listening to these as if I was sitting in someone else's room I have learned to love each one I guess a little. My goal is to be able to go anywhere and so I don't always get to listen to my favorite, and maybe because of this I may not even have a favorite any more. For me it's a matter of exploring things I haven't heard before or finding my way to a place I haven't been in a while or someplace someone else is going and I'm trying to get that.

Every time you put the sub back in it tells me a little more about the maggies in your room, and it seems like there is a little bit of a battle that goes on between the panels, sub and room. Same thing happens with satilites and subs and is one of those things that makes it difficult to choose between going sub in or sub out. I have not done the sub in thing in a while but do enjoy that added push on the bottom, unless I can get my room to do it for me, than I prefer speakers without subs.

Hi Michael

So what does the result with the wood rods tell you about my system?

Sonic