Lattis system

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Hi
My name is Mats and I come from Norway.

Lattis system M1860

My system is:
Audio Analogue Primo and dCS P8i MK2 CD player
Edge NL 1.1 Se preamp
Edge NL 12.1 Se amp
Kharma CRM 3.2 FE
Walker Audio Velocitor SS Enhancer
Picasso interconnects
Omega Mikro and Silent Source power cords
Mapleshade Audio Double Helix Plus speaker cables
Mapleshade Audio maple platforms

Posts : 2227 Join date : 2009-09-18

Greetings Mats!

Welcome to the Tune Very Happy

Nice to see you are using Michael's Picasso interconnects. They are good stuff.

Good to have you on board. Is there any aspect of Tuning your room/system that you might want to discuss or ask about?

Sonic

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Sonic.beaver wrote:: Greetings Mats!

Welcome to the Tune

Nice to see you are using Michael's Picasso interconnects. They are good stuff.

Good to have you on board. Is there any aspect of Tuning your room/system that you might want to discuss or ask about?

Sonic

Thank you Sonic

Picasso is very good cables, I have tried many exspensive cables out the, Picasso is the best interconnects!

I would like to have some suggestions.

I think about platform for the speakers.

Thank you

Posts : 2227 Join date : 2009-09-18

Hello Mats

Platforms for the Kharma CRM 3.2 FE? Michael and Coop will be able to help you with your floorstanding speakers.

I use Michael's Picassos in my system and his speaker cables are very good too. I have T3 (that is 3 strands + and 3 strands -) which worked well. With my system in its present relatively low state of Tune, going to T2 or T1 (that is less strands) thins the sound out.

Is there anything you are hoping to achieve as you seek to improve your room and system?

For example: you may want deeper bass or a more extended treble or a bigger soundstage images or to deal with some room issue like an echo. It will be good to know what you have in mind.

Perhaps you could send Michael some pictures of your room and system.

Sonic

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Sonic.beaver wrote:: Hello Mats

Platforms for the Kharma CRM 3.2 FE? Michael and Coop will be able to help you with your floorstanding speakers.

I use Michael's Picassos in my system and his speaker cables are very good too. I have T3 (that is 3 strands + and 3 strands -) which worked well. With my system in its present relatively low state of Tune, going to T2 or T1 (that is less strands) thins the sound out.

Is there anything you are hoping to achieve as you seek to improve your room and system?

For example: you may want deeper bass or a more extended treble or a bigger soundstage images or to deal with some room issue like an echo. It will be good to know what you have in mind.

Perhaps you could send Michael some pictures of your room and system.

Sonic

Yes for the Kharma speakers. I will send a email to Michael and ask him what him can recomand, and if him can send some pictures.

Nice. I use Picasso Type 2 RCA interconnects with nickel plated RCA's.

More extended treble and bigger soundstage images is something I miss.

Subject: Re: Lattis system Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:32 pm

Hi Mats

Welcome to TuneLand Exclamation

I'll post some of your pics shortly. Make yourself at home Smile

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Michael Green wrote:: Hi Mats

Welcome to TuneLand

I'll post some of your pics shortly. Make yourself at home

Thank you Michael Smile

Posts : 73 Join date : 2013-08-21

Hi Mats!

Welcome to the forum! I'm not up here much but Michael will take excellent care of you! Welcome and enjoy!

Harold

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

hcooper99 wrote:: Hi Mats!

Welcome to the forum! I'm not up here much but Michael will take excellent care of you! Welcome and enjoy!

Harold

Hi Harold
Thank you Smile

Subject: Re: Lattis system Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:51 pm

Ok everyone, enjoy Mats system!

Lattis system M1860

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Hi Michael
What type of platform can you recommend to use under the Kharma speakers?

Subject: Re: Lattis system Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:25 pm

Hi Mats

Here's the one everyone is ordering.

Lattis system Ax65

AXPONA 2017

And below I'm showing the Rev60 sitting on the 24x36 version (which I recommend for you).

Lattis system Aufb223

The Signature version comes with a Tuning Frame & Top. These are by far the best sounding Platforms I have ever designed.

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Hi
To day I removed SDSS stands from the Kharma speakers, I found mutch rubber between the SDSS stands and the speakers that I removed. I also found 4 pieces of sand bags inside the speakers that I removed.
The sound has improved greatly!!! WOW

Subject: Re: Lattis system Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi Mats

As you have read me saying "high end audio" has gone the discrete direction to an extreme loosing much of the recorded code in playback due to this. As you continue to move closer to free resonance your system will open up tremendously. Ultimately you will want to consider using my tools (the whole method) or somewhere between my designs and what you are discovering.

If you look at some of the more seasoned Tunees you will see that they played with the audiophile high end and then just decided to sell off their high end to pay for their tunable system. This is the most common path to take, but each listener gets there at their own pace. Look at Hiend1 as an example or some of the listeners in the archives. I try not to be pushy but the fact is, a Tunee system will go places the high end components can't. Not that the high end components are not good, but that the high end components are limited in their ability to tune.

If you read through the history of TuneLand you will see groupings of listeners making the jump to one of my recommended setups, afterward they will not post as much cause they are done with their setup. Then, TuneLand calms down for a season until the next group of listeners do their conversion. It's like a cycle.

The great news to what you are doing is that you are discovering that there is another level, and it's far less expensive and far more powerful than what we have been told. It's a fun journey to take, even though we go through that un-learning process and some of us kick ourselves for spending so much before learning to tune, but that's the cost many times we pay for our listening excitement. However the way you are now going you will find tune after tune that will lead you to the end conclusion. Plus you have found us, your tuning family.

Subject: Re: Lattis system Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:23 am

Hi Mats,

Welcome to TuneLand! Very Happy

I can see from your pics and comments that you are already using some of the basic tuning tools - removing component tops and feet, removing cable ties, using MGA wood blocks and interconnects, and removing speaker mass and damping devices (any others I missed?). cheers

I suspect you've been exploring the forum, and maybe even the archives a bit.... and building your knowledge base. I'm sure you've found in your reading that the more you move your system in the direction of free resonance, the more open and tunable your system's sound becomes. What you did with your speakers is a prime example. In my early days of tuning I did exactly what you are doing now -- experimenting, then hearing the improvements in my sound, and learning what I am able to do to create the sound I want. You can see this on my thread in the TuneLand archives.

Indeed, the improvement you described after simply removing the sand (mass damping) and rubber (material damping) from your speaker system is a first hand experience of the actual philosophy of most current hi-end designs, and how that philosophy can limit the listening experience. So as you employ your tuning knowledge, experience and tools in your system, you'll be able to move it toward reproducing your music more fully, openly and naturally.

As far as speaker platforms go, that's a great step forward for any system. The lightweight, tunable platforms will improve tonality, girth, coherence, soundstaging and organic-ness in your music.

I hope you are having fun with your new skills and discoveries! Cool

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Drewster wrote:: Hi Mats,

Welcome to TuneLand!

I can see from your pics and comments that you are already using some of the basic tuning tools - removing component tops and feet, removing cable ties, using MGA wood blocks and interconnects, and removing speaker mass and damping devices (any others I missed?). I suspect you've been exploring the forum, and maybe even the archives a bit.... and building your knowledge base. I'm sure you've found in your reading that the more you move your system in the direction of free resonance, the more open and tunable your system's sound becomes. What you did with your speakers is a prime example. In my early days of tuning I did exactly what you are doing now -- experimenting, then hearing the improvements in my sound, and learning what I am able to do to create the sound I want. You can see this on my thread in the TuneLand archives.

Indeed, the improvement you described after simply removing the sand (mass damping) and rubber (material damping) from your speaker system is a first hand experience of the actual philosophy of most current hi-end designs, and how that philosophy can limit the listening experience. So as you employ your tuning knowledge, experience and tools in your system, you'll be able to move it toward reproducing your music more fully, openly and naturally.

As far as speaker platforms go, that's a great step forward for any system. The lightweight, tunable platforms will improve tonality, girth, coherence, soundstaging and organic-ness in your music.

I hope you are having fun with your new skills and discoveries!

Hi Drewster

Thank you :-) Nice audio system you have!

Yes I use some tweaks from Michael. I have read mutch on the Tuneland and I have learned pretty much. :-)
Today I'm trying a cheap Samsung dvd player, I have removed rubber etc.
I have to say I am very surprised at how well it plays! The soundstage is actually larger than what the Audio Analouge CD player manage. :-o

Lattis system Mats2

Speaker platform is absolutely something I will try!

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Hi
To day I removed the metal chassis on the Audio Analogue cd-player.
WOW WOW WOW, amazing! The soundstage its MUCH larger and everything sounds more real.
I'm unsure what to do next with the cd-player.

Subject: Re: Lattis system Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:20 pm

Yep, all that stuff the high end teaches about "build" is about bumping up the prices and little else.

I've been talking to listeners all day today about how this hobby is about to change over the next year or two as we share the tune with them. Hundreds of thousands of our fellow listeners out there listening to their music in a box. I'm very happy for you Exclamation

You might enjoy Top Tuning your player.

Smile

Nothing like Tuning.

Posts : 2227 Join date : 2009-09-18

Greetings Mats Very Happy

Very interesting what you did to start Tuning your Audio Analogue CD player Exclamation

Would post some pictures of what you did please?

Sonic might try something similar with a CD player and compare the results to my Computer Audio set up.

Sonic

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Sonic.beaver wrote:: Greetings Mats

Very interesting what you did to start Tuning your Audio Analogue CD player

Would post some pictures of what you did please?

Sonic might try something similar with a CD player and compare the results to my Computer Audio set up.

Sonic

Hi Sonic
I recomand you to do it, its amazing upgrade ! :-) I did try this tweak on Samsung dvd player but that player whas to noisy.
What kind of CD player do you have Sonic?
I have sent a picture to Michael ;-)

Lattis system Mats3

Posts : 2227 Join date : 2009-09-18

Greetings Mats

Thank you for posting the picture of your modded Audio Analogue CD player.

My DVD player is an inexpensive Sony DVP-K380. It is really old, from around 1994 year of manufacture but it still works. Here a few points on my attempts to tune my CD players till Sonic gave up and I went to computer audio. I hope you might find this helpful:

a. the construction of low-end DVD players has gotten flimsier over time. The earlier transports had a moulded plastic bar with a bearing over the laser and tray – now like my last blu-ray player which I used from 2011 and your Samsung the entire transport is a plastic box with the bearing with stuck to the inside bottom of the top cover. Sonic also wonders if the extra processing firmware so these players can play hi-res video, SACD, blu-ray and what else makes for a compromised sound.

b. be careful with open DVD players there are exposed terminals with mains voltage that can kill. The switch mode power supplies can give an unpleasant shock (as Sonic has discovered on a few occasions).

c. the metal cases act as a shield as the switch mode PS and the digital conversion board give off lots of electromagnetic grunge. I won’t want any of that stuff near my phono gear – which is one reason (plus the danger I described in b.) why you may have noticed that Sonic’s components are in their casings.

d. when I removed my DVD players with their transports and circuit boards laid out on a shelf, there were vibration problems when playing CDs, sometimes so bad that I could hear the rattle from my listening chair Shocked

At times the vibrations were so bad the transport actually “walked” and destabilised the top tune canopies over them Exclamation

When you run your Audio Analogue or Samsung without casings, you should be able put your finger on the transport and feel no vibrations. This is the way it will feel when bolted into the casing. Any noticeable vibration means the laser will have to move more to keep the beam focussed and this will lead to more read-errors which will need the CD player’s correction mechanism to be activated. This cannot be good for the sound.

e. you will get another improvement in sound if you opened up the box your Audio Analogue transport is in but be cautious of vibrations.

f. Sonic was eventually told the cause of the vibrations might have been due to the transport not being perfectly level interacting with CDs that were not 100% balanced even though I set them up with a spirit level. However given that some CDs caused vibration and others did not, if I had to do it again, Sonic might try shimming the transport with a vibration–prone disck and see if the rattling stopped. But I might find that this might solve the problem for one disk and create it for another. Sonic never found it this was the case as I went to Computer Audio which has served me flawlessly since February 2016 (with guidance from Senior Tunee Hiend001).

g. the sound with an uncased DVD player and top tuned is excellent! It will make a much more expensive players in their heavy audiophile casings sound closed down. Top tuning is however an art Sonic never mastered. I found I had to check the balance of things frequently because the bolts are never tightened, the down rods barely touching the top bar or bearing. And the canopy needs to stay level. Then I had to keep all this balanced with the top tunes for the processor board and the PS. Maybe I was doing something wrong which caused the settings to keep running.

h. since you got two players, you can mildly tune one player and experiment with “extreme tuning” of the other and compare the results.

Give it a try, there is lots of music to release in the CDs and a lot to learn along the way.

Sonic

Subject: Re: Lattis system Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:09 pm

Hi Guys

Personally I use only one type of CDP, the Magnavox I reference with. To me (this is confirmed from Garp, hiend1 and other Tunees) this has been the only model that does not have that digital sound.

Last year I brought in several CDPs and DACs (including Bricasti M1) to find the Maggie walked all over them. Even when I fastened down the Magnavox 2300, to remove any audible turning, the unit beat up on any of the others I brought in to reference against.

I say this because I know some of you are thinking it's just the low mass, but this is not so. That particular player (2300 and family) is simply that good. If you read my notes on when the player went from this design to one slightly different (during the Funai testing), the difference made in mid model change was enough to make the Funai sound digital again, and I stopped recommending the Funai version.

Lattis system M1882

So, for me at least, when it comes to CDPs I can only recommend those that don't sound digital and I have only found this to be the cast with one family of models from Magnavox. This is not any comparison of files but strictly CDPs. I find it important enough to specify this when talking about low mass CDPs for this reason, using the Maggie gives the listener more flexibility on the amplifier and speaker and acoustical end of things. The models above go even beyond the vinyl and tape top end competitors. This is no diss to either one of those sources, as they have great virtues and can at times better the CDP counterparts. However, the referenced models I mention of the Maggies are simply a magical breed that for me saves the day for listening to the CD collection. Other CDPs fall short in the "real" department.

Subject: Re: Lattis system Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:13 am

Hi Mats. It's great to see you are now experimenting with CD players. If you happen to find one of the Maggies Michael uses, I think you'll be in awe of the openness it has, even more than the Samsung you now have. And it's so lightweight, a little tuning goes a long way, and once tuned they settle pretty quickly. Smile

I encourage you to keep trying things one at a time. The more you reduce the unnecessary mass in your system, allowing natural vibration, as you know, the more open it has the ability to be king

. Even switching to free resonant small platforms under the components would make a noticeable difference I'm sure. As you saw on my archive thread I initially had a heavy metal rack, and then an MGA tunable rack for my components, and when I finally went with a single platform for my amp or receiver and CD player, it was quite a noticeable improvement even over the tunable rack. I had resisted going to the platforms because I didn't want to have to bend down to adjust the volume or change a CD Rolling Eyes

.

Posts : 60 Join date : 2016-11-09

Hi Michael and Drewster
Thank you for the advices.
I dont find the cd-player you recomand, I need a player that can use 220 volt. Is there another cd-players you can recomand that is easier for me to find here in Norway? Smile

I want to try platforms for the speakers first, but I travel to Thailand soon with my wife.
When I come home, im ready to order. Wink

Posts : 115 Join date : 2015-03-03

Hi Lattis welcome to TuneLand

I know that some Tunees that live in 220 zones have bought converters for their Magnavox players. I'll look to see who, but I know Hiend1 is one of them. Again welcome to the family! You'll love Mr. Green's platforms. Nobody understands the sound of wood and how to bring electronics to life like he does.

» Rob's System
» ML's System
» MH's System
» Jon's System
» Sam's System