Michael's System

It is almost scary how much the sound in my room has mellowed over the last day. Notes that were leaning toward the higher harmonic tones have filled in big time. The system is now being driven by the bottom, or at least low midrange up. On "heart of gold" and "Old Man" I can now hear the low tones in Linda Ronstadt's voice. Before it sounded like harmonizing, now more like a Ronstadt solo.



And the kettles after old man exploded, follow by all the smooth of the strings as the picture is painted through "there's a world". And in Alabama, the piano is full and very mellow in tone, thick. Also now on "needle" I hear Neil's chest and throat as much as his nasal, which is very important for Neil, cause if his nasal over powers his chest he sounds sick instead of rich. The clapping at the end now sounds low in tone and all over the place as you can hear the cupping of the hands as well as the clapping. And it's a crowd that feels like about 40 or so feet or more that I'm in the middle of.

The recording started over so I went in to listen to the first couple of songs. "TUBES" that's what it sounds like right now in the break in of the new platforms. It has mellowed that much. This is about as innocent as Neil can get, with his voice pushing air from the throat. I can easily hear his interaction with the mic.

The Brazilian Pine/LTR Platform 23" X 24"

Up till now I've always recommended going with the 23" X 36" Platform for speakers but the smaller (23 x 24) Platform I have to say so far is kicking. It will be a while before the breakin is over and of course I need to hear how it does with the washers, or if I even want to use them. I have not bothered to tune them or loosen the screws at all and they have in 4 days already produced very low tones. My Mini Mod monitors sound full range easy, and have none of that start at the midrange up going on. You really would have no clue you were listening to mini monitors right now. I'm trying very hard to hear if there is anything that the Music Ply Platforms do that the Hardwoods don't and I think I would need to do a lot of tweaking to the Ply's to get them to compete. I'm almost sure I will like the bigger ones better but am wondering how. I will probably start playing with the screws in a week.

Hi Guys

time to move on to other music

I have enjoyed Neil much and one last listen through gave me that feeling that I treated this recording with respect.

What's up next I have no idea, but I'm thinking something that will be fun to let the system fly all over the place.

Hey, Mr. Green,

Do you have any Mars Lasar CDs? I recommend "The Eleventh Hour" for something that will "fly all over the place."

Robert

Hi Robert

Where have you been? It has been a long time since we heard from you.

Sonic

Hey, Sonic,

I haven't been participating lately, but I do look in several times a week.

Thanks Robert

I'll head to my record shop. Been thinking about big space recordings lately to throw on.

I dug up my BeBop today.



oh yeah, just previewed 11th by Mars Lasar, that's what I'm hunting for

thanks   

My My Grandma, what a big soundstage you have!

I'm about to head classical, but have so enjoyed my land of the moving stage. Nothing like creative rock  

I like all the types but something about an involved moving stage that keeps me in my seat. I will go get Mars, but first I want to answer some classical questions.

Why do I feel like getting out my old english attire and putting on my wig  

lets see which of these I get

Kinda busy today but threw on



I grabbed CD2 so that's where I'll start.

If there is a speaker in the room, someone will need to point it out to me. Symphony in B-flat Major ("La reine") Adagio. Vivace , filled more than my room and easily made the room disappear, according to my stage test. My stage test (one of them) is to walk in this small room and see if the sound is in the speaker or if and how soon a stage begins to appear. My head barely made it in the room and was about 24" from the cone and tweater on the right speaker when the speaker disappeared and the room from there on was all stage everywhere I walked in the room. Outside of the room it was also all stage. The speakers made themselves known for a space that was no bigger than maybe 20" inches from the cone center, and after that it is all stage.

be back

Hi Guys

Getting back to listening tonight, I pretty much have to get my ear right up to the speaker to tell that it is playing now. The soundstage is very even and even though I'm not sure if they recorded this at the church or if they just use the name as they travel, the space that they are in is very present and has a nice deal of ambience. Again I feel the space all around me, and the instruments seem like they are placed small orchestra style (small chamber like) maybe spread 20-25 feet or so, and 20 deep but the space is much larger. The stage itself (the space) runs up to and right through me, and the instruments seem very well laid out and completely full. The strings have a great tone that goes from top to bottom and you can hear the two sides playing playfully off of each other and blending together, really pretty. The dynamics are nice and extremely balanced as pieces go from a whisper to full body. Fantastic bass support with a warmth all the way up. When I shut my eyes I do feel a hall and the instruments are full size, the closest violin maybe 6-7 ft from me with my eyes open but seems to drift back some when closed. I think maybe with my eyes open I'm looking at all the detail and that maybe bringing it up on me but closed the space seems like quite a distance and almost takes my mind to a bigger place like I'm hearing walls in a distance giving sound back. It makes me want to find out how and where this specific recording was done so I can compare my minds eye with the recording itself.

Well    

I was planing to stay in classical for a while and did enjoy one of the recordings that I have run sound for a few times.



but

As soon as I heard toledo enjoying "selling england by the pound" I was pulled back into rock. And I might add, to me this recording qualifies for classical music as well because of the content type and the way the soundstage is presented.



In selling, if you were to replace some of the synth with choral "oh my". The mood of the synthesizer is incredible, but even a little more background vocals would have taken this over the edge. For me though this is still in my top ten and once my setup is tuned to this and it speaks there is almost no getting out. Each song to me on this recording is a rock symphony and I wish these pieces would have each been spread into long play editions. I think it would be wonderful to have this played by an orchestra and stretched maybe to an hour and 20 minutes or so.

Noticed your post time was 1 o'clock so the obligatory 'it's one o'clock and time for lunch, hum dee dum dee dum dum' was a must!

"When the sun beats down and I lie on the bench
I can always hear them talk"



  

"there's no one left alive, must be a draw"

Man this brings back some memories. My friends and I had countless sessions listening to Genesis and seeing their shows. During the Gabriel years it was cult like.

Seconds Out live album has a longer version of I Know What I Like and the all important Suppers Ready that runs for 25 mins. This is queued up for listening.

.... It's always been Ethyl ...

I go through the same thing. It's not just Selling or Trick, but more when any of the early ones play it  turns into a Genfest. And how about Phil's vocals on Seconds, who knew.



It was almost freakie the way Phil "filled in". I love Phil as Phil and Peter as Peter. I have a hard time swallowing after Seconds with Genesis, but before this life was perfect and Seconds Out is perfect. I'll do some of Genesis after but I like Phil on his own better. It's hard to reestablish the perfect band.

I agree the later years Genesis did not do it for me. Seconds Out was my last album I got. I concentrated on Peter afterwards.

Phil did well as solo also.

The early 80s was a strange time for established bands. It seems many of them went somewhat commercial and popish, if you know what I mean. Even Gabriel had his examples of this. Not sure what influenced this. Perhaps the labels skewed things or just the natural collapse of the matured British Invasion. The 70s certainly were, in my mind, the rock golden years. The variety of styles was insane. Yes, genesis, pink Floyd, jethro Tull, traffic, elp, Jeff beck, king crimson, cream, moody blues, zeppelin ... The list is endless and they all were so distinct from each other. Miss those days when I couldn't wait for new albums to come out.

Guys, if you get a chance

join me on "the loudness wars"

https://tuneland.forumotion.com/t228-the-loudness-wars

This is something I joined in on a little at Stereophile but thought I could cover more ground on here.

  

As I played this week I kept feeling the need to go back to Selling England by the Pound. There was a stone unturned that I needed to hear settled. I knew it was there because when ever I hear the drums at a certain point I know that the vocals are about ready to break through and the guitars are about to open up even more. Even though I knew this was going to happen I needed to go back and hear it. People must think I'm nuts that I will let one recording play so long, but this has become a love thing for me. I do enjoy music nights going through different pieces but I think I like hearing a recording take on full form more. It's like watching the garden grow I guess. It's great to plant knowing that something at the end of the season is going to bear fruit, but there is really nothing like eating it at the end of that season. At the end of this day the fruits did very nicely and I'm pressed to hear anything out of tonal balance. The tops of the drums are tight and I can hear every part of those drums. The exact same thing happened with the vocals, guitars and keyboards. Keyboards OML. The sprending of the stage is allowing me to hear so deeply into the movements that it's emotional, as if these aren't keyboards at all but orchestra instruments, but no they are keyboards and it makes me love rock all the more. How in the world can people say rock is not a classical form?

Before leaving this world I need to get my tape measure out and give the size of this. I can't very well go walking into the parking lot or out through my window but in measuring the best I can off to the right side and behind me I can see the bigger parts going into my drying room to about 18ft. That's 18 ft to the right of my chair, the same to the left maybe a little inside of that. behind me ended up surprising cause when I closed my eyes I got a fix on how far but walking into the room behind me I realized that it was even past this room . So I'm going to have to take a guess of maybe 10 ft behind me and a good 25 feet in front of me. This is not as big as my tunable rooms but I would still love to compare this to the rooms used and see how close I'm getting from the actual recorded room sizes. Of course I don't know if the keys were amp miked or direct, but the sound in either case is big.

Hi Guys

I know this should go up on Bill333's thread but I just gotta say   

I've been drying and sanding and finishing Bill's room wood for the past few months. It has been a chore and at times I have not been able to see the light at the end. Today though I had enough wood done so that I could lay things out on top of each other and play the wood so I could hear the transfers. I sat at the edge of the room with a tuned 2 x 2 x 8 and played. "thought I would faint"

this boy is sitting among "High End Audio"

I've been writing on Stereophile's forum over the last while as you guys probably know hoping that we can shed some tuning light to an industry that seems to be going around in a circle. I think some of the guys there are so frustrated that I am coming up talking about their systems being "one big musical instrument", and as much as some of them can they get out their darts. It's so hard for them to admit or even see the distortions they are listening to as they have built their excuses in the form of reasoning or specs to them, but as time goes on the facts remain and you see them come back to the pages asking why is this happening? High End Audio for those have stopped at the component and as some raise their EE certificate you can see by reading that this is a stuck practice. Model numbers and plug & play and trying to one up is the topic of the day and every day. I can see the writers sitting at their computers saying I have the answer, a must be heard, but the same thing happens, trade one distortion for another. I can see the hope that the new speaker or component is it, but I can also see between the lines. I sit here listening to these connected pieces of wood and I see no lines. I hear no tones missing, but instead harmonics resonating throughout my house. I can recall the sound of playing Bill's frames at his place and seeing all of us in awe. And as Bill says "can it get better".

A room that will be suspended on 3 beams, that will be suspended on tuning bars, attached to 6 other beams then transfers to the concrete floor. If the parts I have are sounding like this, what will be the sound when this is supporting a tunable room made from LTR?

WOW   I am humbled! This my friends is high end audio  

Glad to have you back Pat. As I was looking for a pic of this CD to put up I saw this, the first review on the page.

"To R.Lapine: No, this is not a remaster. Unless I'm totally mistaken all the ECM Touchstones are 'just' repackaged (cardbox instead of tray- fine with me!) budget issues of the older CD versions.

As a recording engineer and music lover, I'm come to despise most 'remasters': More often than not, remastering means nothing but more loudness and therfore less dynamics. It's become an unfortunate trend in recent years and it's especially sad when done to jazz records or anything 'acoustic' in general.

As for the music on 'New Chatauqua' it's always been on my my fave Pat Metheny recordings. 'Strumming' is the central theme here and it's interesting to note that this hasn't been doen too often with jazz guitar. Pat himself pointed that out in a recent Intervew and to my knowledge, only John Mc Laughlin has worked with this very guitaristic technique on some on his early records like 'Extrapolation' or 'My Goal's beyond'.

Metheny though builds this whole record on the bright, ringing sounds of his 6- and 12-srting acoustic guitars and the results are outstanding. This recording sounds as fresh and sparkling today as it did back in the day.

Highly recommended. "

Hi Guys

Listening to Pat was great, but did you ever sit there and keep thinking about the next recording? That's where I was at. I was hoping that the tweaking would not need to be cause lately I've just been letting things go (bad michael) but even so I've been getting lucky I guess on what I've been putting on, thank you speaker platforms.

I saw a thing on Frank Z and got Adrian Belew in my head and it wouldn't leave so on goes



and I went in the next room to let it settle. Well got cozy for maybe a minute and went back into the room. Holy smokies, what did I do?, it's the float. How many times does the float just happen? Not many but I've listened through twice now and am in a state of shock. Everything is big, all around, tubie and crystal clear.

No wonder this is one of my favs. Adrian is a madman when it comes to space and effects. Your system has to be ever so slightly off to not understand his recordings (his genius), but when on, it's a mix between headphone and frontal stage that is seamless. And things go way behind you then moves right up in front, kinda like a 3D movie experience only behind you as well.

Why do I love Adrian? http://www.adrianbelew.net/#!prettyPhoto press watch.

Adrian is the prince of underground guitar inovation. He's everywhere and you hear him everyday somewhere. He is the inbetween that makes the difference in good vs great. In my early days of touring I heard the name but I think it was when I saw a TV show of him playing "stay" with David Bowie that it hit me who this was.

A mystery to me how there are not number one chart hits all over the place. He makes fun but the more you listen you say "How". He in my book is a perfect pop star and has given up his talent to others giving them the hits. I'm not bitter, glad we have both the solo and band member Adrian, but for my record he is up with the greats!

Had to put on Sugar Ray for a while but now am back to Mr. Music Head.

I sometimes wonder what some of these guys are thinking when they talk to me about recordings or sound or playback. On Stereophile some guy says that Sugar Ray 14:59 is a terrible recording. My return is always is it a terrible recording or can my system play it? It's sounds strange to me that Sugar Ray would put out this terrible sounding CD. So I put on the recording and it sounds fine. Are there things that I want to tweak? Yep, but the overall was good right out of the gate (not always the case with this recording). But if I wouldn't have liked it, what would I do sit here and say it is horrible and take it back to the store "twice"? Do you guys not see why this drives me crazy? The guy obviously wants the music to sound good cause he goes back to the store twice and gets a new copy. I don't know his system but I'm sure he spent in the thousands right? Spent in the thousands and it can't play Sugar Ray 14:59. Someone please explain this to me. What am I missing with these guys?   

Why would someone be in a hobby where it was about playing music and they buy systems that can't play the music? Why? Oh, it's because my system is so good that it is revealing the bad recordings. Am I allowed to say BS on my own forum? I just played it on my system cold and it sounded fine, I looked up reviews and the public likes it, so does Enjoy the music, and I'm sure I could dig up a bunch more. There may be some high end reviewers who didn't like it because the system they were using couldn't play it, but why is it that we after all this time keep blaming everything but what is making the problems happen? I can't be the first one to bring this to the attention of the industry.

follow me on this

14:59 comes out to good reviews. Guys and gals listening at home or in cars or wherever put the recording on their reference system and write a good review. Some of the reviews revealing things that make you think they must have given a pretty good listen. We don't know their system but their able to pick out a fair amount of musical cues.

along comes Mr. High End

Put's the recording on his system and it doesn't sound so good. Right off the bat "it's a bad recording". No attempt to make the system sound better "it's a bad recording". It sounds good on some other audiophiles systems, well "they don't have a system that is as revealing as mine". This same guy comes up and talks about how he only really likes or trust Classical and Jazz (the two easiest types of music to play). This tells me that he has a system that is having a hard time playing some music and he is not knowing how to make a recording sound good on his system. I bet you a thousand dollars we go to his house put on a piece of music that we agree sounds great on mine or your systems and it will sound like crap on his, coming right out of the speakers. I bet a thousand you and he would find a piece of music that sounded good on your systems and bring it to my place and if it sounded bad we could make it sound good within a certain amount of time.

to me

This hobby is about playing music. A bunch of old farts sitting around on their lazy butts not having a clue about how to make a recording sound good is the last thing the up and coming music lover needs to see. I refuse going around putting labels on recordings as bad when the young deserve to have their music sound just as fantastic to them as when we chose our favorite music.

Send me your bad CD's people   . Hey that's what I should do. I think all bad sounding CD's should come to me. Don't send your bad sounding systems just the music. Actually I should thanks some of these guys cause it gives me a chance to help get some on the right path or at least confirm their suspicions.

If your an audiophile and can read through me poking fun, let me ask you something on a serious note.

How many of you in the last years have bought upgrades only to realize you went backward? The industry told you to move up and when you did the music sounded less musical? Instead of being able to play more music you are playing less? Your sitting there for ten minutes and fatigue already starts setting in?

You moved from simple to more complicated didn't you? You went down a road of focus and detail but when you got there you found that it was getting harder to play one piece of music right after another because as soon as one sounded good the next sounded bad.

I have a secret to tell you. You know how I talk about how all the music has a different code (and it does) ? For the last couple of months I have made only 4 adjustments to my main listening setup. "4" and those were made to test stuff. I have played a wide range of music and without needng to tweak. Could I have made it better at times? sure. But you don't have to spend the rest of your life tweaking and tuning if you make your system simple enough. This little setup here has finally gotten to the point where the music is starting to play the system. I don't think it is perminant cause I have other testing to do but it has certainly passed the good listening test. I think a major part of this is because I'm only using 2 power supplies and no crossovers. The music is being played without effort.

You know that parts sound that you hear? It sounds like detail at first but the more you listen it is squeezed parts. The instruments don't really even sound real more like mechanical. Well that is gone. These are plump bouncing tight real notes. I have Adrian  back on now and the system is almost pounding, but doing it without any type of strain, it's a smooth tight and deep.

Knock knock

Who can be at the door at this time of night? It's my good friend Deluxe telling me he will be in production in 2 weeks.

Hi Guys

Not sure I gave this update to the room that I did a couple of months ago.



I covered the window with .5" Music Ply, and put a piece of Music Ply in the entry. The window cover took a little time to cure so I wasn't sure if it was going to stay but it ended up curing pretty nice so it's staying. The floor as well was buging me even having that little bit of carpet there so I put this board down and pow, that was a nice move.

here's where the platforms are



The door stays open so I can use the space in the upstairs landing and other space up here. I could have stuck with making the door close but I really wanted to go as extreme nearfield as I could and as you know I use this room as a constant playing room and listen to the sound from my writing room which is always a must. So I have the LTR/Brazilian Pine Platform pulled a little into the space of where the door would swing. In the next little while there will be a speaker change as I'm inching toward the Mini 6 Monitor (Hardwood).

I keep walking around up here though eye balling the space where I'd like to put the tunable room.

Music ply on the window....a pix please. There's an idea in here for Sonic!