Hiend001's System

Hello Michael, Hiend001 and Tim

Might be a case of economics diluting art. It is now ratios of how much productivity you can get per hour out of a studio, along with the idea that "we can fix it in the mix", along with artistes who need software to correct their inconsistent singing, so is it any surprise that so much of recorded music appears processed because it is in fact processed.

There was a better day when record labels, even those supported by governments we may not agree with, saw their reason for existence as presenting and persevering a culture evinced in music and drama. Cost, return on investment was secondary because it was subsidized and a matter of aesthetic and national statements. Today, the first question is "how many will we sell, what's the profit margin?"

G F Handel said to a prince (Sonic paraphrases) "I do not want to just entertain people, I wish to make them better." Will any one say this today?

Sonic

from my view

You know how I get down on High End, well they were not alone. Before home audio made their "appeal" changes, both studio and pro went through the same thing. I don't think people realized what was taking place during the technology era. Things changed so fast that no one was able to make "sound" checks on what was happening. The way engineers thought changed, they saw these new toys and went nuts. They didn't have time to stop and listen. The new mixers, patch bays, amps control room monitors, mics, rooms. Everything got modern so fast that no one knew what hit them. I remember being on tour with SM58's (the industry standard) and these ElectroVoice condensers show up and I'm told we're using them for our concerts. They sounded horrible, but I promise you I was the only one out of the engineers who paid attention to it on that tour. Engineers had such a fever for modern toys that they jumped in with both feet and never even listened. The features were so cool to them that literally the studio and pro industry turned on a dime over night. New studios, new lighting, new acoustics, new furniture, new equipment. Producers and artist's managers were throwing so much money at the studios that they were more than happy to go along on the ride cause all of a sudden they were not sound mixers, they now were audio engineers.

Remember when you went to the hi fi shop and saw all those wood cases with glass and chrome faceplace? Then all of a sudden came the black look, then shortly after you had rack systems, mid fi, and high end audio. It was like one industry over night became 3. Same thing happened with cars, and pretty much every thing. Low, mid, hi. In the studios it became multitrack mixers (big ones). Now picture some engineer sitting there. He wasn't listening, he was reading the manual. Wires became snakes and gang boxes. Jacks became path bays, and EQ's were both out board and installed in the mixers fade. Thus was born the cue (bypass). You can start to see the extras in the signal path over the old setups. It all happened way too fast for anyone to really stop and listen, not really listen. People would make excuses for the sound saying the old sound was distorted and the new stuff that sounded thin was because the distortion was gone. Thus THD was born. Testing equipment went from a few hobbyist to an overwhelming (alarming) number of hobbyist. People stopped listening and started testing. And the rest is history. A music industry out of control and a hobby out of control.

As I have said, the High End Audio part started on the right path coming out with a bunch of great designs in the 80's, but then all of a sudden again it was time for reel to reels to go by by, and the long play to be the standard, But look again at how fast that change was made. R to R, 8 track, cassettes, gone. The LP vinyl was not the audiophile choice, it was the reel to reel. Vinyl was the common mans product. It became the audiophile choice as the reel to reel went through it's changes (8 track, cassette). Vinyl was actually considered old school and mid fi until the reel to reel came to an end then audiophile vinyl was born. Kinda interesting when you think about it.

And it wasn't the CD sound that was the change, it was the equipment. Both studio and home. Look at the history of this and see the changes that was going on in the studio, high end and the CD origin. This is why I use red book. I think it's a faithful source. I also think it was born right in the middle of a huge production style change and got blamed instead of the equipment.

Very sad to say the least, when sound engineers stop listening and just want to get a new album out fast and economically.
I'm far removed from studio's and what the've become but one can't help but blame these engineers for not putting the brakes on and saying " I refuse to do a crappy job " just so the music execs can wrap things up before there afternoon golf game. But I also think the consumer has to take some of the blame, particularly the low fi and portable music folks who were only interested in convenience and free or low cost music. If we had all banded together and said, " we want quality recordings or else " i'm sure things would have been different. Of coarse thats more of a dream than reality as we can take a long look at whats going on today where most people don't know or care what over compressed music is and how it affects the artists performance.

hi Guys

I'm continuing this talk on the industry (a great topic) here https://tuneland.forumotion.com/t244-audio-industry-discussion-continued#4322

I think you will find this interesting.

  

Ya Michael or "Natch"     

I think we have the same taste, like to have spacious soundstage with real punchy round sound of "fat" bass and drums     

Any album recommendation with lots of "fat" bass and drums    

sure


Neil Diamond "the jazz singer" (listen to on the robert e lee)

Fleetwood Mac "Rumours"

Kenny Rogers "the gambler"

Steely Dan  "aja"

Alice Cooper "welcome to my nightmare" (my favorite is the MoFi version)

Dire Straits "love over gold"

Peter Gabriel "security"

Led Zepellin "houses of the holy" if you want harder "lV"

Paul Simon "hearts and bones"

James Taylor "sweet baby james"  

Jackson Browne "pretender"

Joan Baez "diamonds and rust"

Rickee lee Jones "rickee lee jones" listen to easy money

Talking Heads "true stories"

T Rex "electric warrior"

David Bowie "aladdin sane"

Elton John "madman across the water"

Traffic "low spark of high heeled boys"

Eagles "hell freezes over"

Johnny Cash "american lV the man comes around"

that's a start

 

Hi Michael and Hiend001

Yes, Fleetwood Mac Rumours for sure. That's the only recording I have on that list.

Neil Young Harvest too, IMO.

Speaking about Paul Simon, how does Graceland rate?

Sonic

Michael and all,

This history of recording is one of the best topics that I have seen here. Since I have most of the albums on Michael's list, I agree with his recommendations. Recently, I have pulled out Abbey Road, Neil Young Harvest, Clarence Brown, Gate Swings, and Ray Obiedo, Iguana to enjoy.

I continue to listen to a restored 1960s tube integrated that used parts faithful to the originals and it works very well with the Magnavox player. All of the above albums were played for the first time with this amp and the sound was quite different from what I have experienced in the past. The sound of the drums is spot on from Michael's description. The closest that I have heard in a modern recording and live was a group using a drummer playing old Slingerland drums. Abbey Road has really drawn me in for the first time since I originally heard it many years ago. Last night, I listened to Neil Young's Harvest several times and I agee with Michael's comments from an earlier thread.

I am really enjoying the sound and recent discussion. Michael and all, keep up the excellent commentary!

Yes, thanks guys Harvest is absolutely on the list.

I'm so pleased to see the gang listening this way. I think many of our audiophile friends have tried to turn bass and the rhythm lines into something less than true, because they have had a vision of unaturually tight placed in their minds by the industry not understanding how a note is so different from a frequency.

Free resonance of our components and speakers and rooms are the key to setting these "notes" free. And freedom is the key to notes reaching their full potential. Open it up, then tune it in to the desired tightness is my approach. We shouldn't close the signal in prematurely causing it never to get the chance to be "fat". Fat is a lot harder to get from a system that has been squeezed to death.

you guys are making me happy   what a bunch of great listeners   

Hi Garp,

Great to hear that we have similar taste of jazz music     Ya…… the bass of Bob James “Restless” album is fantastic low. I have all the Hiroshima albums collections. Two of my favorite albums from them are “Go” so jazzy…… and “East”.  You should also try one of the Hiroshima member solo album project “Spirit and Soul” by June Kuramoto, great stuff ……….. Ray Obiedo “Iguana” album track#8 – ‘At First Glance’, the solo guitar part was soo emotional that I felt a lump stuck in my throat…    the guitar unique harmonics really hypnotize me…….    

Thanks Michael for your recommendation list. The Eagles feeling as if I’m inside the stadium atmosphere…..   
Ya…Dire Straits is soo bluesy and scary…….   

Hi Audiophiles,

You will never get the above listening experience if you are still stick with high-end audio. My listening experience session with Michael Green’s Tunable products are soo enjoyable.

You will realize that over Audiophiles forum the traffic are always very busy with tons of content about problem and leading to another problems without really solve the problem    

In Tuneland forum the traffic is light because Michael really knows the root cause of the problem and provides solution     Therefore over here no grieve but happy listeners with lots of curiosity on comparing notes about surprise musical notes which never hear before   

Musical enjoyment is all about emotional feeling  ……     

One of the great things is "the audiophiles are watching". How could they not be, we're having way too much fun    and going way further than anyone has   

Bring on the music boys   

Hi Michael,

Oh man ......I love the beats.....  
The whole week I was stuck with Eagles - Hell Freezes Over. It was sooo enjoyable that I kept on playing again and again....  

I never hear a LIVE CONCERT with so much power and yet beautiful solid drum beats with great decay ending notes. The guitars jamming and sweet vocal by Timothy were sooo thrilling that my body kept on swaying with the beats. I set the Sherwood volume to 33 and yet sound so effortlessly without hurting my ears   

Michael, I was curious how the recording engineer could make a recorded live concert in the open stadium sounded like the band and the audience were doing a live recording together in a controlled huge recording studio environment. I had attended live concert before but never experience such a very detail and distortionless live concert  

Hi Hiend001

Some of the best live recordings have been done in association with the MTV engineers. I love the unplugged series around that time and of course Hell Freezes.

Absolutely my favorite version of Hotel California.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Freezes_Over

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Village_Recorder

Truly one of the greatest concerts ever  , the video is a must have  

I concur, one of my all time favorites.

Hi Guys,

I'm still stuck with Eagles    This will be my 2nd week with them and still love every minute listening to them. Will be my record breaking being stuck to an album listening for so long  

It getting better everyday    The fat harmonics and halos sounds filled up the room were incredibly addictive  

A listener after my own heart   

Remarkable how much a recording will change and take on life like sound through settling.


  

Hi Guys,

My record 3 solid weeks with Eagles had ended    Since I love drum beats of 1980's so much, have moved on with Def Leppard - Hysteria album.



You might thought that it going to be a very messy rock music with those crazy electric guitar jamming. But not on my system. Surprisingly good deep soundstage with clear electrifying guitar and of course lots of solid drum beats    Good separation on instruments and could hear the cymbal clearly   Good rocking stuff  

Hi Hiend

This recording has become one of my go to rock references for using effects properly. The last time you mentioned it to me I was listening to "Pyro" and you said do this one instead. Months after I got another copy and it still sat on the shelf for a while. Then the time permitted me to revisit these tunes. "TUNES" what was I waiting on  This is far more than a tribute to the "80's".

Take out a soundstage fork & knife, and you will never stop cutting into thick pieces of juicy, meaningful, rich morsels of rock story lines. Be prepared to have the stage come up and get personal cause it is "huge" and comes at you from all over the place. Some of the best reverb over flow ever recorded.

In fact, I need to put a quick hold on my "dire straits" journey, and do a little Def trip.

  

Hi Guys,

I have moved on to another incredible week of listening to this one   


Warning: Your woofers may burst after about 60 minutes of constant punching  
This drummer album sounds so musical accompany by bass and percussion. The halo of the drum beats were fantastic good  

Highly recommended. Became my reference drum testing album  

Hi Hiend

I don't have this one so will need to pick it up, cause I love listening to drums.




  

Hi Guys,

What a threesomes   My music room transformed to a live jazz club  



The halos ambience was unbelievable  What a sweet piano with bluesy bassist and great drumming attack  

sweet         

Hi Guys,

I love my system so much that everyday always looking forward to play some nice albums on it after work   

What makes me glue to this system is the cohesiveness, the biting ending notes, the wave of halos, the sweet floating harmonics, the raining sounds of the cymbal and my beloved drum beats attack   

Wow........ What a system   ....... I'm in heaven.......   



Oh my..... what a smooth jazz album on my system now 

Hello Hiend001

Great to hear that you are getting such good music that you feel you are in heaven.

Sonic is working on my system, making advances with my recent discovery about No Toe-in of the speakers. For my musick, I can say that it more like Purgatory...and the hope that Sonic is about to get out!

Sonic

Hi Michael,

She was standing in front of me with her fat harmonics voices filled up the room. I could imagine her body was swaying slowly with both hands holding the microphone teasing me and sang "Spanish Harlem"   

Seriously this was what happening in my music room. My speakers have just disappeared in my room    By the way her name is Rebecca Pidgeon - The Raven album.



It happened after I had made some minor progressive addition to brown paper, foils and lastly shifted the deluxe floor stands to the corner of the room during the past few weeks.





Bang   Bang   Soundstage deeper, wider and taller. Harmonics and halos last longer. All the musical instruments have it own space behind the speakers (no gap). Easily identify the location of drums, cymbals, guitar, piano, singer, etc   

Michael, realised that not all songs could make my speakers disappear. Some songs I could still hear occasionally a little bit fainting instrument coming out from the speakers like Shakers. Is it because of the way the recording process being done or the type of music being played matters?

From the pictures what do you suggest which could further improve on the soundstage. Would like my speakers to be completely disappear. Is it possible in my room   

Oh dear....I'm really addicted to my system    Cannot live without it    

This week intend to play "Audiophile Female Vocalists". Albums like Amanda McBroom - Dreaming, Diana Krall - The Look of Love, Laura Fygi - Bewitched and Jennifer Warnes - The Hunter.

Hope to discover more CD with speakerless feeling experience