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 Hiend001's System

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Hiend001

Hiend001


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Location : Singapore

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 07, 2015 6:29 am

Hi Michael,

Regards to speaker cable wires. Is it a must for both pair of Left and Right side cable to be equal in length?
Will there be any side effect on music if left side is 1 meter and right side is 2 meters in length.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 07, 2015 7:07 am

Hi Hiend001

That should be fine. My left one is 40" and right one 60", no problems.




Cool
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Hiend001

Hiend001


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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 11:46 am

Hi Michael,

May I know the wood material for my platforms on the top board, frames & bottom plates?
I think the mini CD platform for top board, frames & bottom plates are made of Magic Wood material.

The wood fragrance smells nice Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Mar 08, 2015 8:43 pm

Hi Hiend001

The Platforms are made of

Top Tuning Board: Music Ply (birch)

Frame: LTR (redwood)

Spike Plate: Brazilian Pine


Mini Platform

Top Tuning Board: Magic Wood

Frame: LTP (soft pine)

Spike Plate: Brazilian Pine

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Mar 28, 2015 10:52 pm

The Hidden Harmonics!

The first thing we need to understand about the hidden harmonics is "they are there". The truth of playing recordings comes down to realizing that the equipment we have will never be as good as the recording we play. The recording itself has more info than any system on the planet. If we think our system is better than any particular recording as in being able to judge a recording, we might never find how good that recording really is. This is where high end audio runs into conflict with playing music. The equipment at it's very best will still only be a bunch of sodered parts no matter what out minds have bought into from being a hobbyist.

That's the first big step in finding the hidden harmonics.

If we get this part, we can move forward to what audio is. To break it down as simple as possible, audio is "vibration". We don't need to be any more technical than that statement "Audio is Vibration". If we try to make audio into anything other than that we are going to place ourselves on a battle field that doesn't need to happen. There's no reason to go outside of the technology of vibratory tuning to get great sound.

second step

I go through this one as much as anyone, but I'm only trying to fool myself when I say "all I need to do is put the system in-tune". I do this for the sake of trying to relate a thought, but if I was being factual, this has nothing to do with tuning the system and everything to do with tuning the signal that the particular recording is giving me. I might like to pretend I live in a world that is automatic, but I know that this is no where near the truth. The truth of extreme listening is the "fact" that every recording is different and evry time we set our system to a particular sound, this is more than likely only playing a very small portion of the signal.

3rd step

The third step to finding the hidden harmonics, is a choice. We have to understand and believe a recording is what it is and a system is what it is as well, and not try to take either one of these out of context. It doesn't matter how good our ears are, how good we think a recording is or how in-love with our system we are, if something is out-of-tune it's out-of-tune. Our hearing, system and recording is not going to fix this. There's only one way to find the "hidden harmonics" and that way is to treat that recording as the "absolute" at that moment. Restoring the recorded code of that specific recording can only be done by using the variables available in the audio signal. If we think the signal is not vibration (variable energy) than we will never believe in the "audio code" completely.

for the sake of others reading this take a peek at https://tuneland.forumotion.com/t268-the-audio-code

"And when the stage is painted there's tons of layering and depth.

Hiend001's System - Page 7 M675

Playing back a soundstage is almost like falling into it, with everything all around. Still in front if you have it setup that way, but also not this line of image that stops at the speakers plane. More layers that are way in a distance, up to you and past you flowing yet extremely detailed."
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Hiend001

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 31, 2015 10:38 am

Hi Michael,

Yeh man Exclamation I'm trying to find the "Hidden Harmonics" in my new setup but unsuccessful.

Can you elaborate step by step what is my next move to achieve this awesome "Hidden Harmonics" Rolling Eyes Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 3:56 am

Boy, the hidden harmonics step by step Idea

To do this I think I will use a recording that is way out of tune on my system right now.

Took me a while to find something all messed up but did indeed find something that was dreadful No

Peter Gabriel's "UP"

Hiend001's System - Page 7 M883

I'm going to listen a while then start my attack.

First thing is to get a good reference for where I am.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 1:56 pm

Well, maybe not so bad Laughing

After a settling, I have been greeted by a fairly big soundstage. This recording has layers and layers of depth, and lots of deep rich bottom.

This won't stop me from the step by step, but I'll need to do this from memory cause this particular recording is coming to life on it's own and I'm just going to enjoy the ride for a while.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2015 10:39 pm

MG returns to "UP".

I confess I needed to do a side-track which changes my formula alltogether, but maybe this is a good thing cause it makes this particular journey more of a challenge.

My now first listen through since the change, brings me to an interesting cross-roads that is staring me in the face. The difference in sound between the wave of compressed effect that comes within the very beginning and throughout on occation and the soft soothing passages.

time to look at the history here

Engineer Richard Chappell has been at Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios for over 15 years -- and he's spent seven of them working on Gabriel's latest solo album.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Paul Tingen

Peter Gabriel fans have had to wait 10 years for a solo album proper to follow 1992's Us. Last year, their man finally obliged with a new collection of songs, Up, joking that "Old men take a little longer to get 'up'," and adding, "Starting is always easy... finishing is harder." Gabriel also noted that "Speed is not my strength: diversions are," and it should be pointed out that he has worked on several other projects in the meantime, most notably Ovo (2000), the music from his Millennium Dome show, and Long Walk Home (2002), his score for the film Rabbit-proof Fence. Nevertheless, 10 years is a long time by anyone's standards.

Up's CD booklet contains some hints of the gargantuan amount of work that went into its making, with 10 engineers and assistant engineers credited, and half a dozen recording locations across the world mentioned. The average amount of musicians credited per track is about 12 (counting bands and orchestras as one), with people doing things like 'groove treatment', 'tape scratching', 'loop manipulation,' 'Spectre programming', 'Supercollider programming', and so on. Apart from Gabriel himself, however, only one other person was there during entire period of the album's making: engineer Richard Chappell, "on whose shoulders," according to Gabriel, "this record has been built."

Chappell has worked at Real World, Gabriel's prestigious and pioneering recording complex near Bath, since joining as a 17-year-old teaboy in 1987. He's followed the usual route from teaboy to tape-op, assistant engineer and engineer, being taught by the legendary David Bottrill, who was Gabriel's regular engineer until he-  

Peter Gabriel at Real World with his favoured Kurzweil K2600X controller keyboard (front) and Clavia Nord Lead synth.

Hiend001's System - Page 7 M884

-left in 1993 at the beginning of Gabriel's Secret World tour. Chappell took over, working as Gabriel's live assistant, helping prepare studio material for live performance, and engineering the studio overdubs that were added to Secret World Live (1993). Apart from a few diversions, as assistant engineer on New Order's Technique (1989) and engineer on the same band's Republic (1993), Chappell has worked full-time for Gabriel since he joined Real World. (In addition, Gabriel has another engineer working for him, Richard Evans, who was mainly involved in the making of Ovo and Long Walk Home)

Mountain Music

I talked to Richard Chappell in the Writing Room, also nicknamed the garden shed, which is a glass and wooden building sheltered by trees and located a few hundred yards from the main Real World studio complex. "Peter made the decision for this album to get out of the production room in the main studio building and make the Writing Room his base," Chappell explained, adding that it offers privacy and the freedom to have the equipment set up as he pleases. "Whenever he walks in, his mic and his keyboards are always live so he can just sit down and play and work."

The Up album began life in the spring of 1995, when Chappell and Gabriel set off to a place called Meribel in the French Alps, where they rented a local chalet. "We achieved a lot there because there were no distractions," Chappell enthused. "We did a lot of writing, and a lot of snowboarding. It's a dream way of working, up in the mountains every day. It was very inspiring and made Peter very happy. We generally worked at night time, which was tiring, because we'd be exhausted from jumping around and running around the mountain by day."

Other than guitarist David Rhodes, who "came in at the beginning to jam along and play," only Chappell and Gabriel were present during this initial period. They worked for two months in Meribel, returned to Bath, took part in a Real World recording week, kept working in the garden shed, and in October went to Senegal for a further three months of writing. Apparently Gabriel managed to come up with more than 70 ideas during the Senegal phase. Afterwards it was back to Bath again, and in the Spring of 1996 they went once more to Meribel for writing and snowboarding. ("Peter's a fun boss, really.")

The equipment Gabriel and Chappell were using during these sessions was brought over from Real World and included a Mackie 48-channel mixer, a 32-track Pro Tools system, a few ADATs ("for if something didn't work properly with the hard disk"), and three Macintosh 8100 computers, one with Pro Tools and Logic, one for backups and one for writing lyrics and going on the Internet.

Hiend001's System - Page 7 M885

"Peter had brought most of his normal writing setup to these places," Chappell explained. "This includes an Akai MPC3000 or MPC60 -- he likes to have a modular drum machine. His main sampler and keyboard controller has been the Kurzweil for the last 10 years, initially the 2000, then the 2500, and now the 2600. It can do a lot, and he can make interesting sounds very easily with it. He also has a Clavia Nord Lead, and lot of Korg stuff, like the Wavestation, 01/W, and more recently the Triton. He likes basic Korg sounds to play with and treat, more than he likes Roland-based stuff, even though he likes Roland pianos sometimes. He also uses an Emulator IV and the Waveframe, although the latter less and less recently.

"His setup is quite simple really, and it's more about the treatments in the moment. He'll work with a good piano sound, and then treat it with effects like Eventide or Delta Lab delays, or distortion or other pedals. He has a lot of guitar pedals to play with. We use Pro Tools plug-ins, but in general it's more a matter of putting stuff through speakers or a pedal. But it could be anything. It's not that calculated. It's whatever works."

During the Summer of 1997 the duo made another trip, this time to the Amazon, where they recorded on a friend's boat. "It was a small trip of perhaps two weeks or so," Chappell explained. "It was a private boat with a full recording studio on it, but I can't talk about it, other than to say that we worked on Logic there as well. It's just a crazy thing that we do now and then. It was a strange and bizarre trip in which we were travelling down the river working on music and looking out of the windows seeing the rainforest go by."

Back In The Real World

In the Writing Room, further writing, recording, overdubbing, and editing was undertaken with the help of a digital Sony R3 Oxford recording console which was installed in the Summer of 1997. "When we moved to the Writing Room we just had a Mackie setup here and a whole bunch of gear and a big mess of cables," recalled Chappell. "After the second Meribel trip we bought the console and installed a proper studio here, with Neil Grant Boxer 3 speakers, and currently Mackie HR824 nearfields. We have two Sony Oxfords now, one here and one in the workroom in the main studio. It has 120 faders, which is just about enough for what we do!"

After the different writing periods Gabriel had, with his 'sprawling' way of working, come up with about 130 song ideas and sketches. A selection of these would find their way on Ovo, Long Walk Home and Up, after going through many different permutations, variations and approaches, with people being invited in to try different treatments and musicians asked to overdub all manner of parts. The joke has been made that Up is the first recording that needed its own archaeology department to organise, store and retrieve all these bits of information. It was therefore not surprising to hear  

Up Track By Track

Chappell state that hard disk recording as well as the digital Sony desk were essential to the project. With hard disk recording Chappell was able to name and organise unfinished ideas and parts, while the combination with the Sony made it possible to switch instantly from one song idea to another, offering Gabriel unparalleled creative freedom and spontaneity.

"Looking back, I don't think we would have been able to do it with more traditional studio gear," Chappell remarked. "With Peter's way of working there's simply no other way of doing it. It does get quite crazy, because he doesn't like to throw many things away, so you build up a huge archive of tracks and tracks and tracks. I had various assistants on the project and one of their main jobs was to listen to things and make notes of what's happening and highlight the different bits. These highlights then ended up on DAT tapes so we could go back and listen to them. Then they got transferred to iTunes, the Macintosh's MP3 player, and so Peter always had a point of reference."

Nevertheless, with Ovo and Up being Gabriel's first largely self-produced recordings, one wonders whether he and Richard Chappell didn't at times feel overwhelmed and find it hard to remain objective. It appears that the versatility of digital technology again proved essential. "We didn't get overwhelmed because the music we were working on was always changing. The canvas in front of us was always changing... it was always fun, and always interesting, and I really like the music. And Peter is very amicable and fun to be with. So it was refreshing more than overwhelming. I never got worried about it."

 'Darkness'
 
 According to Gabriel, this was originally entitled 'House In The Woods' and remains a track about "fear and how fear inhibits people". The track has reportedly inhibited quite a few people from listening to the rest of the album, such is the shock of the gentle tuned percussion right at the beginning being abruptly interrupted by monolithic distorted riffing and vocals. One wonders why Gabriel decided to put this right at the beginning.

"Peter has been asked that question quite a lot," Richard Chappell commented. "We played with the running order a lot, and we always kept coming back to this track as the first track. It is one of the first tracks that we finished, and it was one of the easiest we worked on, to get it right. It just has so much muscle and it seemed like a fun idea to have the quiet intro and then the loud assault. Some people have actually broken their hi-fi because of it. A few people became quite upset during the discussions about the running order, but Peter wanted to come back and show some strength. I really respect that.

"The quiet pulsey sound right at the beginning is a triggered keyboard sound. It's a gated treatment that's running along triggered by a groove, and then we cut it in and out and laid it at the front of the track. The aggressive, loud noise that comes in is actually a conga going through a distortion box. It's all drums and percussion, although there's a guitar underneath it as well. We used the Jam Man for the distortion, and there are a lot of percussion loops on that track created with percussionist Mahut Dominique. The distortion on Peter's vocal is a combination of the Sansamp and a Line 6 plug-in. It wasn't added in the mix, we always had the vocal like that."
 
The Truth About Analogue

Gabriel and Chappell were, however, worried about another aspect of digital technology: sonic integrity. In 1995, when work on Up began, hard disk recording was in many ways still in its infancy, and many were fearful of losing data and concerned that 16-bit audio coming from a hard drive sounded inferior to tape. Chappell said "I tend to agree that the 16-bit/44.1k resolution is too low, but at the time we decided to work with what we had. We A/B'ed things and then it was like 'That's it, let's get on with it. Don't be distracted by that.'

"We A/B'ed a lot of A-D converters. We had used Apogees for the final stereo transfer to DAT of Us. Since then we did more A/B tests and got a bunch of Prism converters to record any fundamentally important things, like vocals. We immediately heard the difference between the Prisms and the Pro Tools A-D converters. One of the reasons for going for the Sony Oxford desk was the quality of its A-D converters. In the end we simply used the Sony converters. Our only problem now is to figure out where we're going next, because the Sony doesn't support more than 48kHz, and I've listened to 96k and it sounds better. But then, the Sony sounds better than a lot of 96k desks that are around at the moment.

"Growing Up"

Chappell: "The elephant-like sound is a vocal treated by the Jam Man. This is the only track that has a sample from a library -- a cello coming from a normal Akai library. What sounds like DJ scratching is in fact Tchad. He put a bunch of drum fills onto a tape machine, hit go on the tape machine and spun stuff in."  

"When we began the project there was no 24-bit recording. We did eventually transfer everything to 24-bit/48k and kept it at that. Sometimes we couldn't get enough tracks out of Pro Tools for multi-channel sessions with drums or musicians, so they were initially recorded to the Sony 3348HR [48-channel digital multitrack] or the Studer A820 [24-channel analogue]. We used the latter mostly for treatments. We often work in analogue for treatments and used the Studer as a processor, kind of like an off-line plug-in. We take things out of Pro Tools, put them on the Studer, mess with varispeed, up an octave, down an octave, reverse things and so on. There's a real quality that you get from analogue that's beautiful and nice. It's not an arty way of talking about it, it's the truth.

'Sky Blue'
 
Gabriel: "The oldest track on the record. The original riff is probably 15 years old but it was something that I always liked and felt had good emotion in it. As a teenager I was very influenced by soul and blues and it was my starting point for a lot of music. I think this was definitely an influence on that track."

"We also do treatments in the Sony console. I'll have a reverb available like his standard Quantec, a set of delays and quite a few plug-ins, whatever is needed. But as a rule I print any treatment or effect, so when you get something that's really happening, it is recorded, rather than having to go back and having to set up again. The same with a plug-in that's working."

Original Audio

The Writing Room boasts a 32-channel Neve 33-series desk, but its 33797 modules are "basically used as mic amps," according to Chappell, and it also features a wide range of other preamps and microphones. For Gabriel's voice, Chappell often used a Sony C800 valve mic in combination with a Shure SM58, run through external mic amps like the Amek or Neve. "It depends on the time or the song, there are lots of different ways really. I may sometimes use the digital compressor/limiter on the Sony when recording his vocal, but a lot of times I'll take it off and just ride the level with a fader."

'No Way Out'
 
Gabriel: "That is something that emerged from the early sessions and there was this sort of Latiny feeling to the groove, but that's pretty much buried now. In fact some of my favorite rhythm programming was on this track by Chris Hughes and a thing called Supercollider [a Mac freeware soft synth]. It breaks everything up into lots of little pieces and then reassembles them, still very granulated. It has this strange mysterious percussive quality to it. I was thinking a little more Roy Orbison when I was doing some of the singing and I think there is that influence as well as the computer-mangled ethnic rhythm element."

Gabriel's love of guitar stomp pedals and analogue sonic treatments are other examples of old-tech -- as is, arguably, his most recent talent, playing the guitar. "Yes, Peter plays guitar now!" stressed Chappell, "and yes there are particular ways in which he works, sometimes with sampling, sometimes with manipulation. He doesn't play it normally, let's say. But he has fun doing it, and he likes to record a lot of it, and then he likes to go back and find out what happened."

'More Than This' is one of the tracks that came out of Gabriel's unorthodox guitar experiments, as is 'No Way Out', on which he is credited as playing Telecaster. On these and other tracks Gabriel also receives some colourful credits such as Wonky Nord, Mutator, Oxford Backwards Samples, Firefly Keys and so on. Some, like MPC Groove or Sample Keys, are self-explanatory, but others demand an explanation. Chappell elaborated: "Peter likes to credit things in a particular way if it has been useful to the song. The Mutator is a filter box, and the Jam Man a small Lexicon delay box. You record into it and loop it and it layers and delays. It distorts really nicely and it's great fun for making instant loops that you can play with.

'I Grieve'
 
Chappell: "The way that track ended up was very much Stephen [Hague]. The way we'd worked on it, it was very dark, even on the 'up' section. There's one loop that remains from that, the drum loop that comes in and out. Stephen worked with a programmer called Chuck Norman and they got the rhythm track to happen the way it does. We did a mix of this track for the movie City Of Angels a couple of years before, and Stephen heard it and wanted to have another go at it. So we let him and it ended up on the album."  

Firefly Keys is simply Peter's way of describing a sound on that track. I think it may have been a patch from Gigasampler, a PC-based sampler that's great for instant sounds. If you want a string section or something, it's there immediately. It loads very quickly. Since the time we did Passion we also have a sample library for the Akai S3200, but we don't really use the Akai that much any more."

'The Barry Williams Show'  

Chappell: "The treated loop I did on this came out of the 3/4 drum tracks that we had put down -- as we did for every track -- and me going, 'right, what can we do to make it different and right?' So I took some Manu [Katche] parts and looped them up and started to treat them with some samplers and put them back on hard disk. I think you can just play with things and see what happens."  

Chappell's credits on Up extend beyond general engineering to individual mentions for programming on all tracks and 'treated loop' on 'The Barry Williams Show' and 'loop manipulation' on 'My Head Sounds Like That'. Most of his programming centres on rhythms, reflecting his origins as a drummer. "It's basic stuff really," Chappell explained, "because you're engineering you're adding sounds, you're programming stuff, you're moving things around. It's normal in engineering now. This is why my credit for programming on 'The Drop' [a piano/vocal solo for Gabriel] pissed me off. I just recorded it and manipulated some stuff around. That's all. With regards to the other stuff, now and again we get people in to program, but most of the time I'm left to my own devices, and then I just program. I generally take audio samples and move them around or touch them up.

'My Head Sounds Like That'
 
Gabriel: "Some chords in there are very old, but the mood was something I liked. And then there was this moment in Africa when one of the echo machines jammed and started malfunctioning and I liked the sound of that, and so the loop that begins the track is actually from this Delta Lab Echo which was crapping out at the time."

"We normally have a rule that we only use audio that originated from us, so no sample CDs. We have a lot of drum sessions that we go back to and get parts from, and then it's a matter of trying to get it to sound different. Sometimes I may get some MPC happening, but most of the time I like to cut up audio in Logic. On Ovo we had a programmer called BT [aka Brian Transeau, interviewed in SOS December 2001], who did some programming on the tracks 'Make Tomorrow' and 'The Tower That Ate People'. I was quite inspired by him. He does everything in audio, and since working with him I've copied that. So we do all the loops in Logic, stretch it a bit, cut it up, play with it, see what happens."

'More Than This'
 
Gabriel: "This came right at the end from a thing I started with guitar samples. I was mucking around with guitars and Daniel Lanois had left his beautiful Telecaster. I can't play guitar to save my life, but I can make noises on it. The first sound that you hear on this track is me manipulating my guitar samples on the keyboard. I'd always liked it, and I was driving through the Italian Alps and found this old cassette which had this stuff and I'd been playing around with a different groove, and it started to make sense to me at that point."

Mixing Up

Another juxtaposition of the hi-tech and the old-tech came in with the American engineer, producer and mixer Tchad Blake, who mixed the album. Blake is particularly known for his work with 'dummy' binaural heads (in his case the Neumann KU100), and his strong preference for compression and what he calls 'mechanical effects', sticking microphones in rubber tubes, tin cans, or cardboard boxes rather than using digital reverbs (see SOS December 1997). Blake decamped from Los Angeles to the Cotswolds in recent years and now mixes and records frequently for Gabriel's Real World label, often using his binaural head. Blake himself was reluctant to talk about his work on Up, but Chappell was prepared to lift the veil a little. "I think Peter invited Tchad because he was producing himself and wanted to have a fresh pair of ears towards the end of the project to keep things under control. Tchad is very strong-willed and having someone like him around is a good discipline. We tried out a few songs with him, and Peter liked the results, so we kept going. Tchad is a genius with what he can do sonically. We also have a history with him here at Real World, so that's what we went for."

There was, however, one complication, and it fell to Richard Chappell to sort it out. Blake didn't want to mix on the Sony, nor did he want to mix straight from hard disk. So he set up in the large recording room in Real World, where there's a G-series SSL, and Chappell transferred all the disparate bits and pieces that made up the ingredients for each track onto a Sony 3348HR and Studer A820.  

The Writing Room is based around a Sony R3 Oxford digital desk.

Hiend001's System - Page 7 M886


"Tchad wanted to work off tape and completely in analogue -- although in the end he did mix from hard disk. Tchad likes to work in the big room because he has a lot of equipment and wants to spread it around. He likes the Sony Oxford desk, but he often inserts a lot of analogue gear everywhere in the signal path. You can do this with the Oxford, but you get sample delays. You can adjust these, but it was just too much hassle for Tchad to deal with. He's very instant and likes to quickly buss things in and out and get on with it. He could also use his binaural head techniques more easily in the big room.

 'Signal To Noise'
 
 Chappell: "The Oxford backward samples on this... Peter likes to have treatments come back again through the Oxford and use the EQs on the console, which are pretty dynamic. So he'll take his keyboard track and a drum track through the EQ and do some passes of the whole song running an EQ filter across it."  

The strings on 'Signal To Noise', for instance, were recorded quite dry, so he decided to spin them through a room and bring them back in via the binaural head.

"With Tchad mixing in a separate room it meant that Peter and I could keep working. Peter would be in here recording things with me for the same song that Tchad was mixing, and we'd walk towards the main building to add these things to the mix. Tchad would either agree or disagree, and they'd have to figure out between them what was going to be used."

Tchad Blake with binaural head.

 Hiend001's System - Page 7 M887

Tchad Blake's mixing process and Gabriel's enthusiasm for last-minute overdubs meant that the various ingredients of many songs ended up in even more different places than before, making Chappell's job of compiling the material still harder. When I talked to him, he was in the middle of collecting the recorded ingredients of the song 'Growing Up' into one file, so it could be sent off to the American pop mixer Tom Lord-Alge for a single mix: "Even with all our notes it's still a pain in the neck to turn everything into one document. I'm looking through different versions and trying to turn it into one version. A lot of songs were worked on over such a long period of time, and things were added in SADiE, in Pro Tools, in Logic, in the cut. It simply takes a while to figure out what happened."

Chappell is also preparing material for producer Stephen Hague, who is working on a revamped version of Ovo, with Gabriel singing all the songs, which is to be released later this year in the US as a genuine Gabriel solo record. A remix album, which will see people like Tricky and Trent Reznor having a go at various tracks from Up, is also expected in the shops towards the end of the year. On top of all this, after the European and second American legs of the Growing Up tour in the spring and summer, Chappell and Gabriel intend to complete the follow-up to Up, tentatively titled I/O and based on material from the same sessions as Up. It is scheduled to be out some time in 2004. It seems like an extraordinary avalanche of releases from the master of non-record-proliferation: "Sometimes you wait ages for a bus, and none come, and then suddenly four come along," is Gabriel's explanation. With a possible six albums out in the period 2000-04 he may risk having a congestion charge slapped onto him..."
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 12:20 am

MG what's up Question

I needed to take a look into "UP" as I heard something early on that was sticking out to me "the flavoring of multiple mixing". It happens I was correct by the article I found while my studio engineering brain was being twisted into a pretzel scratch . I was thinking "I haven't been out of the studio that long have I Question "

An audiophile might pickup on this complex recording adventure, but a studio/engineer/audiophile who likes big stages and is somewhat familar of the sound of different effects and mixers would probably do what I did affraid .

"what the heck did they do that for Question " is all over this recording for me, and for me to figure out. Rarely do I run into a recording that has 4 or so main domains to it that seem like they all need to be tuned in at different levels instead of one final mastering sound and message. I had no idea I was going to fall prey to this when I started, but already said I was going to take on "UP" so there is no backing out Wink

In the middle of all this is me in the middle of prototyping speakers. Thank God for room #2 Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 2:54 am

First things first. Let me listen to the very first thing that smacks me in the face, which is of course the very loud effect that sounds like a wall of distorted noise. I could maybe accept this as such but I'm also hearing the parts around it not sounding in focus. Peter wouldn't be throwing this at me without some sort of meaning so I bet there is some layering going on that is being smeared. Out goes the poplar speaker washers and on goes the brass. Snap Exclamation , like someone turned on the focus machine. Does this mean the poplar washers are bad? No way, what it meant was the speaker was recieving a signal that was wider in nature than what I was listening to before and I needed to tighten up the code to match a little better on this recording.

Our recordings have several ranges to them and they all act differently depending on how we play back the music. Recordings are not one size fits all and when we treat them as such we all of a sudden find ourselves lost in a sea of sounds, but these sounds are not making a lot of sense till they are in-tune. This is one reason why a lot of folks call "rock" recordings not so good. But this is not really the case. Reality is rock recordings are usually "more complicated" in the electronic stage of production, mounting layer ontop of layer and flavors (hidden harmonics) between the lines.

The harmonics of a recording is what holds the space together. You might be thinking I'm talking about a harmonic echo or resonance in a recording, which all of them have, but I'm not. What I'm talking about is the aligning of the signal as it is on the recording . Every piece of equipment used in any recording has it's own space domain unique to itself. You would think this could be explained in frequencies but it actually goes much deeper.

Remember driving down the road with your radio on? At the top of the hill the song becomes clear and at the bottom fuzzy. The signal becomes stronger then fades in relationship to the station. The radio frequency is in constant movement. Some times you will be driving along and one station will fade as another comes through on the same setting. If you could see through the air at the waves, you would see a vast intermingling of waves that would be of all different widths and values, and as you moved in front of these waves they make the signal recieving antenna go in and out of phased variations of the same signal. We've all done this with radio and TV and it makes sense to us. We turn on a channel and tune it in enough to listen or view.

well

Every recording is a TV channel, and each one of these channels, once charged (turned on) is able to be tuned in to show some, all the way to, all of the signal. But here's the difference. See your TV set, it's a flat screen. Your only seeing a very small part of the info that is recorded. In the future of TV this image will be projected into the room as a hologram.
Hiend001's System - Page 7 M888

Yout TV will be placed in the middle of the room and fire up from the ground or down from the ceiling giving you a true 3D event. Exciting right? Don't we wish we were young all over again Smile

Stereo, inside of your room is very much like a hologram and when we find the right physical balance to that recording, all along the signal path, it appears very much like that globe does only we are seeing it with or ears and eyes. There's a huge jump past High End Audio coming up and even the very simple systems that produce a listening hologram will blow away high-ends best flat screen sound.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 3:52 am

So now I peel away 'Darkness'

I know that this recording has a bunch of inner electronic effects to it so the first thing I want to do is be able to see them. For me making that adjustment on the speakers brought me to the place of clarity and now I can see the several layers provided by each effect unit.

If you listen into the soundstage you can see the space difference between each effect.

let me go listen a minute, while I'm gone watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDNr0NPFQWw

I'm back Smile

As the song starts listen for the different parts to the into. Hear the faders? Hear the whisper? If you do hear these before the first big effect you've got things pretty clear. If not, lets take a look at what could be going on.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 6:56 pm

Shaping the tone and stage with the electronics.

Once I got the clarity the entire recording opened up so I could hear the main subject matter.

How did I do this?

Listening for me is a matter of getting to know what each tool does, and how these tools affect each other. To do this I need to be able to tell if a sound trait is from transfer, mass, balance, room, electricity, speaker, fields and me.

Over the years I have thrown away the thought of brands and have moved toward flavors and how to work with them in a settling, ever moving, environment. This has givin me a far greater respect for the power of each recording, and has at the same time dispelled audiophile myths. Believing in the truth of the audio code as it relates to every part being a key performer in my system, I now also have a respect for all the parts and know that the hidden harmonics can be hiding about anywhere.

When I made the washer change on my speakers the signal was activated and I began listening back through the system, able to hear that both the CDP and Reciever were ready to be put into action.

I got a bunch of blocks and got ready to play. I started by using the blocks in different patterns and changing in and out the different flavors of blocks. This does not happen quickly unless you want to get lost fast. Because my blocks have a multitude of flavors (I know the guy that voices them Wink ) and because I live in the desert, I have become familar with their character in my area, and the tricks to get certain sounds from them. Some of these tricks I know are short term and others are longer lasting, but all of them play a role in my tuning.

When using any material it's important to learn what it can and can not do. For example there are certain combos of Cones/Block that make a certain spacial effect happen on my CDP, but not so much on my Amp, and vice versa. Certain materials like being closer to my amps transformer than other, or maybe I should say certain combos. The key to all of this is making your system simple enough and learn the recorded code of any of your recordings to know when and how to make these flavor changes.

sounds tough? it's not

When you watch a concert you'll see many guitar players go through several guitars through the concert. Tuning your recorded codes are very much the same, it's a matter of getting use to the flavors and building our confidence to use them. Sure at first we're going to make big sonic changes and get lost, but as time goes on we learn the tricks to our systems and get to the point where we are "playing" the music along with the music playing. Like when I make a LTR Block change I also have learned to know how to move my transformer wires to adopt the new sound, as well as the wires at my outlet. After a while of playing you learn to do things automatically by routine or habbit. As I said before the less you have the easier this is and the more the results.

Let's say I'm working on the harmonics in the highs of the piano on "up". Yes I make an adjustment to the Blocks by moving the center front block a tiny bit to the left and as I do this place a dried block under the front right corner, barely touching the amp. This then prompts me to change the CDP slightly. I kick back for a while, then I hear it plain as day. The outlet wire has settled into a stuck sound, so I barely lift on the wire coming out of my wall and even as I do this can hear the upper harmonics of the piano open up, like someone just turned on the harmonic faucet. I sit back down and WOW affraid , the harmonics explode all around me like a creepy movie that keeps you looking behind yourself.

a big lesson

This gives me a big lesson in keeping the signal alive. Now my system may settle perfectly with "UP" and I may be happy for a while, or as things continue to settling I might hear something that drifts that I wish to play with, but for me more times than not, I'll go exploring the harmonics.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 7:59 pm

once I have the signal juices flowing

There comes a time with every recording where I feel I have mastered at least being able to get to the basics. This is when I either keep listening to it continue to settle, or move to another recording, or go exploring.

My exploring puts all three parts on notice, electrical, mechanical and acoustical. One thing that I know is "the sound is there", and that sound is usually bigger than any size I can come up with as a stage. Even though my stage is nice and full I know that if I find the right EMA combo I can open up any part of that stage that I want.

You see every sound in your recording has it's own place and value, and (very important) one place will not sit right ontop of another (it might move through it), but it can block out the place (space) of another sound if not tuned. This is why space is so exciting. Every sound has an unique value that has, an up and down, side to side, fade in and out factor and phase character. Some fades might be more flat than others in size and dimension, and some fades may start at the front or back and run through the whole space or even right through you. Typically there are natural fades that happen in a live room, patterns of the mics with their associated phases, the cable used, and of course all the equipment. When I say all the equipment I mean every part within the equipment as well. For example the engineer may have his trim on one setting and his fader at another, giving it's own signature to that instrument miking and or effect. There are 4 basic volumes on most mixers, and any combo of them give a different space perspective. So there is really no such thing as a "flat" recording, but depending on the recording and mastering itself more of a landscape to play with. Space is "not" a room effect. The space is already on the recording. The rooms job is to reveal that space.  The room is the recorded codes template, that allows us to bring out the entire spacial environment of the recording. It's far more of a space template than it is an artifical space greater. Important to learn what is artifical and what is the recorded template wanting to appear.

the four mixer volumes, plus the signal, stereo and master pan

trim input
equalizer
mixing fader
master output fader or trim

this is not including the effects

break time Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2015 9:47 am

Hi Guys,

My definition of “Hidden Harmonics”:
The surround air of the girth and harmonics around the notes and instruments being played was SO AMAZINGLY REAL   affraid   The key part of all the “Hidden Harmonics” aspect is this one ……

…... harmonics wave pattern just moving TO and FRO around the instruments being played……

It was so fascinated that you just want to listen for MORE..... MORE....... MORE...... This harmonics things really psycho your emotional feeling while listening – a good one of course   Wink

On racks system I could tune the “Hidden Harmonics” by playing with canopies, nuts, blocks underneath the equipment, etc……   Idea
But since upgraded to platforms system I’m struggling as I’m not familiar …….  Rolling Eyes  

Got to learn from Michael on the tricks of platform tuning ……  study alien
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2015 10:31 am


Hi Michael

Fascinating how you tune to get the Hidden Harmonics. My question is how did you know the smearing came from a poplar washer and how did you know brass was what was required and not MW or something else?

There are dozens of tuning points in a system, how to know which to touch to get an effect. For instance, just say I am listening now to a recording of a choir and I think the vocal lines could be more distinct and the ambient space could be wider and deeper round me. Where shall Sonic start Question

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2015 2:49 am

Hi Hiend001

A quick question for you. How tight are the screws on your platforms? Have you started playing with this yet?



Smile

going to be so much fun Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2015 3:31 am

Hi Sonic

you said

"Fascinating how you tune to get the Hidden Harmonics. My question is how did you know the smearing came from a poplar washer and how did you know brass was what was required and not MW or something else?

There are dozens of tuning points in a system, how to know which to touch to get an effect. For instance, just say I am listening now to a recording of a choir and I think the vocal lines could be more distinct and the ambient space could be wider and deeper round me. Where shall Sonic start Question "

mg

I spend a lot of time listening to the sound of each part as if it (the part) was what I'm listening to instead of the music. As I sart to get use to the sound of the material I begin to incorporate it in different places to hear how it mingles with other materials. I do this before I start to use the material as a tool to shape the sound or stage. If I get the sound of the material in my brain it sticks. I'm weird that way.

After a while, I start to bring in some music (listening to the music+ the sound of the material) and try to get it to do certain tricks, not thinking about the whole as much but more specific traits that in time become somewhat predictable.

There are several domains to the way a material will affect sound. For example, using it as an electromagnetic antenna or dielectric, which the same material will do both. You may have one recorded sound that has more of a lean toward fat bottom. In that case you might want to make your fields and transfers tighter till you have the tops of the drum skins for example tight. Then to spread out the stage, find out where the most balanced place on the amp is and use lighter weight/per mass transfers.

"For instance, just say I am listening now to a recording of a choir and I think the vocal lines could be more distinct and the ambient space could be wider and deeper round me."

In this case, I listen for mid to high frequency smears. The smear will either come as a cluster type of sound, where the vocals all sound like they have a metal or plastric, dry or sharp character to them. Most blockage comes from the signal somewhere in the system being over saturated by a material somewhere in the chain, or a transfer over powering another materials flavor, or a stressed pathway. It's simple once you learn the sound of each part and piece and get to know what shuts it down or opens it up. Resistors for instance clam up if the capacitors before them in the chain are not relaxed. How do you relax a part? Get the part away from the circuit board (longer leads), find the spot on the board where you can give relief through top tuning, or find a better tonal transfer underneath.

Sounds like a lot I know but it's really not so much when you spend time finding what does what in the system.

For myself, as I thought about the other day with "UP' in wanting to describe what I did, I realized that I didn't really have a step by step as much as a relationsip with my room, electric and system. How did I know it was the washers? It may sound dumb but the recording told me. Probably like how when you play a song on the guitar and your brain is saying "should have used those strings instead of these".

Again remember that I don't just play music and try to fix it. Every time one of you says a sound your getting, if I know that sound I'll go do it, or if I don't I'll try to make it. Another example, Hiend001 is starting with the platforms. He says "not getting the hidden harmonics yet". This makes me want to start knowing what is better now then before, and what is worse. I realize part of this is settling newer products, but I also know Hiend001 was at a magical place before he started introducing the platforms. The Music Ply Platforms I might add. So what in the other setup needs to come back into this setup, to get him back to where he was and moving beyond.

Same with you. I look at things like setup and how you talk about toe in, and think "how do we make his speaker/room interaction disappear more". Does the system have stress, or does that cross-over/electric charge not produce the sense of relax that you want. When a speaker is not stressed toe-in is not that big of deal. I have always suspected that besides the room being a bugger, there's a system bottle-neck happening that you keep working around, but at times it's still not happening as relaxed as it should.

Because of this bottle neck, your going to be spending more time finding unique voicing configurations as your recordings change. Blockage of course means longer settle time.

How much have we played with your power strip? I know if I plug in any more parts on my outlet I get a cluster in the mid-highs that is a bear to get rid of. And that's where my mind for some reason always goes with your system (blockage). Do you still have transformers right at the power strip? I know at one time you had warts there mixed in with the regular plugs. That's not a good thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2015 10:56 am

Hi Michael,

There was a cracking sound on some of the screws whenever I turn the screws loose every 2 to 3 days. Some of the screws head already surface out of the countersunk hole. I guess the wood still yet to settle down  pale
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2015 9:47 pm

Yes, I want to keep an eye on the settling with you.

Sometimes I don't even use all the screws but we'll get into that as things get some settling in.

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Hi Michael,

You guys were talking about Speaker Cables Type 1 to 3. I have been using my Speaker Cables for past 10 years and don't know what type I am using Laughing

I'm using 3 wires twisted for + and 3 wires twisted for -. Is it Type 3 Question
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 15, 2015 9:59 pm

Yep

1 for T-1
2 for T-2
3 for T-3

T-2,3 are twisted

You are using Type 3

Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 17, 2015 12:00 pm


Greetings Hiend001

Type 3 Shocked Sonic realizes if you are using T3 given your advanced state of tune, my using T2 split is crazy Embarassed I should be on T3 too given my lower state of tune.

Looks like Harold will be hearing from Sonic.

How about posting pix of how your system looks like now with the platforms.

Sonic
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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 18, 2015 8:58 am

Hi Guys,

I'm the proud owner of newly setup Tunable Platform System Cool

Well the hidden harmonics yet to discover but I know it takes time for my platforms to settle Razz

I will patiently wait for the magic to come ............ bounce

Enjoy  sunny

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PostSubject: Re: Hiend001's System   Hiend001's System - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 19, 2015 9:01 am

Greetings Hiend001

Congratulations cheers cheers cheers Your system looks wonderful and will be sounding wonderful soon. Your wait will be rewarded Sonic is sure.

The down rod over your CD player transport – am I right to understand that you set it up so that when a CD is loaded the tip just comes in contact with the rotating bearing disk but when there is no CD, then the tip of the down rod will not be touching the bearing?

Sonic tried this once and it worked but was delicate. If the rod setting was too tight, the whole canopy would lift when the CD loaded and the bearing lifted. But when the whole thing was stable and worked it sounded very good. Now with my Sony blu ray player, the bearing disc is enclosed in the plastic transport housing. Not an advance, just cheap manufacturing to save cost.

Is the down rod wood?

Given than Sonic plays CDs one after another (average three per evening of listening on the "non-analog" days of the week), a set up like yours will be difficult to work for me but given that you play one CD for days like Michael, this practicality will be of no problem for you.

Thanks for telling me you are on T3 cables. Sonic is going to have to go to more strands in the speaker cabling for sure. Sonic keeps learning from you Exclamation

Sonic
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